Probable unpopular PTR throwing hatchet opinion

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It’s not my intention to spark controversy or a heated debate about whether or not the throwing hatchet will be “OVERPOWERED BUSTED AND BROKEN” or “UNDERPOWERED USELESS AND WORTHLESS”. I just needed to get that out of the way, so please keep things civil here.

To start, the changes to the throwing hatchet are insanely great. They make it feel somewhat usable and fluid, and there is no doubt in my mind that it will be far better than what it currently is on the current non-PTR build of the game. I have a feeling I will continue to main throwing hatchet for a very long time, on both builds of the game. I just like using it, truthfully. It’s fun.

I will just bluntly say it though, even after all the buffs and tweaks to the throwing tree, the main issue is it’s LAUGHABLE damage in PvP. I get that they buffed it, the overall damage will be higher… just not high enough to make it viable for a lot of people in PvP. The debuffs are extremely nice, the damage overall is not. I get that it seems intended not really as a main weapon, but a support weapon for melee players (atleast I hope that’s the intended game design). When I’m doing 1400-1500 damage at best to a light armored player while CRITTING with a 625 keen/vicious throwing hatchet, it starts to become less and less fun for me to use in PvP. Meanwhile you have bows, muskets, blunderbuss ect, all doing the exact same job…but better in almost every way.

I want to compare something for a second, as I see a lot of people making this point to explain how the throwing hatchet is supposed to be played. Let’s look at the blunderbuss, the other main ranged option for strength users. It does ridiculous damage, has lots of CC to lock players down, and can make you very tanky. I’m not saying this to attack the blunderbuss, it’s a fun weapon and I don’t think it’s overpowered at all in it’s current state. Comparatively to the throwing hatchet and a secondary ranged option, why would I EVER in PvP, choose the throwing hatchet over the blunderbuss? They both sort of share the same roles, as close range skirmishing weapons as far as I’m concerned, except one just seems outright better than the other.

As far as criticism goes, I just think it needs a damage buff. A big one, a lot bigger than what’s currently on PTR. I love using it, and always will, it’s satisfying hitting and playing around with it to me. It’s not satisfying when I’m tickling someone while I’m using over 400 strength and gear specifically designed to try and make the throwing hatchet viable.

I’m sorry if I attract a lot of hate, I just genuinely hope one day it will become usable again in PvP. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and thank you AGS for taking the time to atleast look at it in detail on PTR.

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It does less big damage number than the bow but its not that much less. That doesnt mean it does less dps. The cooldowns are way faster than bow. For instance I was able to use one hatchet skill that I compared to similar bow skill 4 times before I was able to use the bow skill again. The other skills I was able to use twice before the comparable bow skill. All the hatchet skills had way more utility than the bow skills do. With more utility and faster cooldowns it should do less damage.

I will say the hatchet hit box is way smaller and probably wont be a very good pick for people that cant aim or lead well. In cracked hands this weapon will be a beast IMO.

Also hatchet is a split stat weapon that scales with str and dex. Part of the problem is all your points are in str with diminishing returns. Take 50-100 of them and put them in dex and your damage will go up.

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I understand your point. I’ve been playing around with different builds extensively trying to see if I can up the damage at all, but truthfully putting any into dex at all just decreases overall DPS from what I’ve tested. I get the passives are better for it, a lot better. Even so 400 strength and light armor with maximum crit chance/damage while using berserk is about the best I’ve found damage wise in testing.

Onto your first point, I believe you. The overall DPS might be great, but hitting every single ability that is required to upkeep that DPS is harder than most players realize against a competent player, constantly rolling and trying to counter/predict when you’ll throw your hatchets next to strafe out of the way. This is due to your 2nd point, which I completely agree with. The hatchet hitbox being a lot smaller.

I believe someone did a video recently testing it on PTR, using a dex build running a bow/throwing hatchet. @Relentless_Turnip was their name I believe (sorry for pinging you good sir). To compare, if you watch his video he was consistently doing over double damage to players with the bow than the hatchet. Yes I know he was running mainly a dexterity build, but regardless, he really only ever used it to debuff other players…which was smart. The damage was so lackluster it didn’t seem like it was worth using for more than the debuff upkeep. This is the case even on the main version of the game.

In my eyes, as far as PvP goes anyway, ranged weapons need a lot of base damage to do CONSISTENTLY well. The throwing hatchet lacks that. I shouldn’t have to hit every single ability off cooldown to compete with a bow user who can just hit one ability and out damage me by a metric mile.

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So, when i tested this, i got the most damage by far with 300str 210dex, i thought the damage was pretty good compared to live. But this isn’t on a player either.

I do know that test duels i was getting eaten up by the improved hatchet, but i couldn’t say if the damage felt “too high” or not because i’ve never really dueled a throwing hatchet on live to compare since they are kind of rare.

I would hope to see this get adjusted into being a great main choice and not be a secondary only weapon like you suggest in your post. With a little tweaking i think it could get there.

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That damage is pretty good to be honest. I assume though you’re running arcane gems against corrupted, with max rend on target, and that damage is from the infected throw. I could be wrong though.

I think I usually run rally gems against bosses/PvE. With about 400 strength and max rend, it’s not a far fetch to say against a PvE mob like this, 4500-5000 damage is pretty normal on a crit.

The problem in this test though admittedly is it’s rare you’ll get the chance to apply maximum rend stacks to a target in PvP, ignoring the fact that arcane is giving you such a huge damage increase. (I really hope this reply doesn’t come off as rude, sorry if it did. It is not at all my intention)

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None taken at all, i do currently have the arcane gem equipped. I believe this adds 30% to the second half of the damage which would need to be considered. In pvp this is kind of a crapshoot, but if a person is stacked in physical this would be a good boost as well.

this damage was from one rending throw, into one infected throw. I made sure to not have any skills from the spear, as i’m not using any other type of damage enhancing abilities.

The followup regular throws are pretty high too, especially headshots when applicable. But like you said, it currently does good damage “per second” and not necessarily “good damage” in pvp confrontations.

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I will admittedly happily steal and test your build suggestion from earlier though, it sounds great to try out hehe. Thank you for the suggestion, fellow gamer. I think I will be very squishy though.

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it is very, very squishy.

This is similar to some of the 5 con glass cannon musket builds. Ideally, this i would pair with spear, strictly for CC myself. But it also does a considerable amount of damage in the right tree. paired with rend/bleed this would be a very fiery glass cannon.

If using the left tree, landing a javelin would be a very deadly opener into rending/infected. And with throwing no longer consuming stamina it’s a deadly barrage of axes xD.

I think to properly minmax would be something like 225/225/50 and suppliment with food. But your mileage may vary. Good luck!

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No worries for pinging me, happy to converse :grin:

It’s good as a secondary on a Dex build, but I wouldn’t use it as a primary. I suggested in that video that as a bow player you are best to try to the majority of damage with the bow.

Hatchets thrown are about double the speed of bow(a total guess), but I get that you have to be pretty accurate for that to matter. I think it seems like good damage tbh and rewards skill.

I don’t know how balanced it will be on live. My greatest concern is the actual bugged passive in “exhausted infected throw”. I think all the changes will shake things up massively and it will take a month + to really have any idea where balance sits. The perk changes for example will increase diverse builds or create a new meta. I’m excited to try it out tbh :+1:

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I am also very excited to try and test it out. I hope they fix the infected throw though. They’ve come out and said before that it is infact a bug and are aware of it, I believe. I have absolutely no clue if they’ve fixed it on PTR yet though.

Thank you for making a video about it, as not many people really seem to make content on new world, especially PTR. It’s helped me get a lot of insights to how I think throwing hatchet will be played when it releases to live, but obviously the current changes aren’t final so I can never know for sure. I do agree it seems like it will be a lot easier to hit, so maybe that will make up for the current disadvantages on live that the throwing hatchet faces, but like you said we can’t know until it’s thoroughly tested.

edit: Now that I think about it, it might be worth putting a video explaining exhausting infected throw in the bug report #public-test-realm thread if you can @Relentless_Turnip - the source I heard from the devs knowing about it might not be accurate. I really don’t want that making it to live, that would stink.

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Trying to hit a dodge-rolling player…or hell even one that’s not running in a straight line is like:

Hatchet Thow Fail

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They should just reduce the overall damage on the throwing hatchet to deem it a supporting weapon and keep the fast cooldowns.

I don’t think it should be a primary way to DPS otherwise they’ll have to nerf the utility. Melee can use it as a supporting weapon for their primary melee weapon and ranged people can use it for purely supporting their primary.

Reducing it’s overall damage keeps the low cooldowns usable.

I’m not saying Nerf it to irrelevant damage but it shouldn’t match any damage like bow in DPS.

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It’s more than hard enough to reliably land hits on moving targets to leave the damage right where it is.

It’s much harder to land hits with…so why not?

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From my experience, I agree.

The forums on the other hand say after the last PTR patch it’s easier. Have not hopped on PTR to confirm.

First PTR update? Yeah, hitbox was ass. My axe would fly inches from the player and not hit. Tbh, it would seem to clip right through them to me, but I say inches because no damage numbers. Lol

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Here’s the thing though, do you think it will be worth using as a support weapon compared to what players use now? I admittedly don’t think so but we’ll have to see. For strength melee, most people just run warhammer or blunderbuss as a secondary weapon. For dex ranged users, they have the incredibly powerful rapier and spear to play around with. Both of these options for both types of players are in my eyes, miles ahead of what the throwing hatchet has to offer currently.

Which is why I was comparing it to something like a bow, or a blunderbuss. Both of which are ranged options that seem to do a lot more for the player than the throwing hatchet. I think it would be nice not to HAVE to see it as a support choice, and have the option to use it as a main weapon.

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Thank you for watching the video mate and I’m really glad you got something out of it :grin:

I made a montage video last night and I’ve been trying to make another discussion video today. It’s been a productive weekend so far :clap:

I haven’t come across a hatchet with the “exhausted infected throw” on the PTR yet so I haven’t been able to test it myself, but @slender did a great video and believe submitted his feedback :+1:

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Oh nice! This is very good news. Thank you for relaying. :pray:

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sure did my man :wink: its um… a little over the top lol

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You could pair with GA and rend and infecting throw would be nice on the gravity well.

You could run it with bow to be a decent match up for anyone up close, social distancing can root so you can use that and evade shot to further distance yourself. Spear is an offensive option for bow and rapier is… Well, rapier.

Based off of the feedback thus far, the damage and cooldowns will be nerfed. So, I’ll campaign to keep the cooldowns so the weapon isn’t completely gutted and useless.

I’d rather have it have decent damage and balanced utility to pair with spear. I’d love to have a ranged weapon that can be up close as well with decent utility while not having it’s damage irrelevant.

Social distance, rending throw, infected throw into a skewer sounds good. Idk if it’s fast enough though.

Maybe say screw the infected throw and run feral rush on the weapon for spear assistance.

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I’d say any buff to the throwing tree is great. It’s been bad far too long.

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