PvE Agro / taunting needs improving

Three sunders then ya’ll can attack.

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As a healer, I can also confirm that threat seems entirely broken.
Sometimes in the openworld when running solo, I will pull mobs from other players, without being grouped or healing them, their mobs just run to me.

another thing I notice is if a player and a mob is close to eachother, but not engaged in combat,
and I open with a ranged attack on said mob, it will for some reason, go and attack the closest player, that never even was in combat with said mob - How does this even happen?
does proximity give 10000% threat in the open world?

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I have tried to describe this issue an a few different posts already, thank you so much for create a clip of it!

It appears that once enemies start ‘casting an ability’ / ‘enter an animation loop’ / ‘take their turn’ a taunt will NOT cause those enemies to redirect that action towards the taunting player. Currently, as @Chardis suggested, it will only bump your threat slightly above whatever the highest threat was on those targets at the time. Do notice that once the enemies resolved their abilities the nameplates showed you gained aggro on both of them.

It does feel a bit clunky to press taunt and for the enemies to go: ‘Hang on a second mate, I’ll be with you in a moment’. I initially assumed this was a bug, but I’m getting the distinct impression that this is working as intended.

side note: It is great to see an actual reply from Amazon. I was starting to wonder if they even read any of these posts!

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Ya ive noticed this. enemy will choose a ability to use on let say a Healer. even if I have aggro on his bar if he chose to use it before I had aggro he will use the ability and charge the healer then turn and come to me instead of just coming to me when aggro is gained.

An example of what I mean via theoretical Mob ability timeline:

Mob: “Move to player X and attack”
Me: “Applies taunt debuff on Mob (note importantly applies debuff, does not generate ANY threat)”
Mob: “Finishing chase to player X. Recognizes it has debuff, begins to spin around to chase tank”
This sum up pretty much what my Tank friend said to me. Mob will first finish his action before reacting to the taunt.
And yeah, as a healer, every mob with a bow keeps aggro on me all the time. This is weird.

Hi everyone,

Lots of great follow up discussion! Here’s some extra info on target selection based on some of the questions you’ve asked;

• Healing generates threat equal to a percentage of the amount of health that is healed by the spell. If you cast Sacred Ground but no one stands in the AoE, no threat will be generated. But if you heal a damaged player for 100 health, you will generate 20 threat towards every AI already in combat in the area who is aware of you. Different healing spells generate threat at different percentages, but healing done doesn’t generate threat at a one to one ratio equivalent to healing output.
• Socketing a Carnelian Gem into a weapon both enables Taunts AND increases the base threat you generate with attacks. The threat increase percentage depends on the tier of Carnelian that is socketed into your weapon.
• When you have aggro on an AI, that AI’s nameplate will have a bright red highlight around it. If that AI has aggro on someone else, the nameplate will appear as if the AI wasn’t targeting you.
• Each AI has their own threat table. This means that if you are fighting two Skeletal Warriors and a Skeletal Archer who is lurking in the back, the tank needs to make sure they’re hitting and Taunting the Archer! If they ignore the Archer, they could find that this AI targets someone else who has more threat.
• Weapon swapping has no impact on threat. It does not increase nor does it decrease your threat.
• Dodging has no impact on threat. It does not increase nor does it decrease your threat.
• Taunt sets your threat a fixed percentage above the current highest threat-holder. So, if you use Taunt to initiate a fight, your initial threat will be rather low. I highly recommend initiating with other abilities or light and heavy attacks, and then use a taunt a few seconds into the fight.

I also appreciate the bugs you’ve brought up! I do have notes on a few of them:

• The carnelian socketed into the amulet is indeed a bug. Carnelians that enable Taunt should exclusively be found in weapons, so I’ve notified our team about that item.
• The Taunt status effect icon doesn’t match the duration of the Taunts. What you see on the ability tooltip is indeed correct. Thanks to your reports we’re aware of this and investigating it!
• We’re investigating the reports of AI running towards non-engaged players when you’ve already aggroed them.

I hope this gives you a bit more insight into the target selection system. We’re always keeping a close eye on our AI and looking for areas that could be fleshed out or improved in the future. I appreciate all of the feedback you’ve given! As always, I hope to see you all in Aeternum!

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Small ask, could we increase the red highlight? :slight_smile: Theres already a lot of red between the different icons/hpbar/etc

No Aggro:
image

Aggro:
image

p.s. Thanks!

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so if i heal as a healer 3000 heal i get 3000 threat? who the fuck is going to do more while ill not stand still after that with my aoes on the group healing other ppl too >.>

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Can you elaborate how damage generates threat? In what amounts?

Thanks @Chardis

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Well, only your single target heal can heal for that much, and DPS can deal 3k damage just as fast and for consistently longer. also, if you re-read the post, my man says, “Taunt sets your threat a fixed percentage above the current highest threat-holder.”

So the Tank has to gain aggro with a taunt when you nuke heal someone who is about to die. Most tanks have three taunts AND hatred on their gear.

hated increases the threat they gain on attacks.

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in one of their posts about threat they say that those sklls will attract the mobs attention but when their timers are expired they go again to the target with the highest agro and so the tank has to generate more agro before those timers are expired which means if the tank wont do his job right ill still have the highest agro and those skill dont generate agro (well they do but they dont add up permanetely). this if im not mistaken of what i read

edit: here is the screenshot, https://prnt.sc/1wxcrf5

Sad to hear that the amulet / rings with the carnelian socketed and threat generation instead of threat decrease are a bug and should not exist like that.
wearing the amulet opened up a lot of options for tank build diversity.
without it you’re sadly locked to the same 3 weapon choices and without the option to change to newly dropped, better weapons without socket.

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Thank you all for bringing up that Topic!
And many thanks for answering the questions we have.

Can someone tell me if what i heard is correct?

Someone told me that taking damage will reduce your threat of the creature that damaged you slightlyl, as well as dodging hits will reduce your threat by a bit.

But Blocking hits, no matte if its blocked by shield or weapon, will generate a bit of threat.

As a new Tank this seems to be important to me.

Thank u very much!

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There is one of you big issues right there - a 1:1 ratio of healing and threat. If you look at all other MMOs you will find that they use a % of heal being threat even before items reduce it (either by default or via talents). In an action game where AOE damage can be consistent and AOE healing common, a 1:1 ratio is hella high.

Aggro needs a more clear indicator - make the whole bar a different colour or something. It will make it much easier for people to identify and track lost aggro as opposed to a mob mechanic having them turn and hit someone else. This helps reassure players the tank is doing is job and also makes it easier for us to identify if something is wonky with threat with certain mobs or in a specific area.

The AOE taunts could probably do with an increased range, a lot of MMOs added ranged taunts because it is a nightmare trying to re-aggro a mob that has escaped your reach - especially with collision, I would say have AOE taunt do the area around you plus who you aim at, but given the hectic nature of fights that won’t help much as too much would be in the way.

I would suggest you lose the excessive mob stagger mechanic, it is a real pain. Or change one of the crappier Con traits to help nullify it. Between collisions making it difficult to hit all mobs (which the healer is getting constant threat on, multiple times a second if others took splash damage) and being knocked around and therefore out of position constantly to hit all the mobs, aggro is a huge uphill battle

Based on your posts, aggro should be working like other games but doesn’t seem to be and it may be linked to the above issues. I have to admit I was surprised to hear that taunt puts you X% above highest threat, because that is how I expected it to be, but the way mobs react it felt more like it just gave me aggro for duration

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Here’s a list of problem with taunt that most player have encountered that isn’t in the post :

  • DoT/Hot seem to generate aggro like direct it. It’s not uncommon to see mob run to cast shortly after being taunt

  • Level 6 wolf (example) attack level 60 as if they were level 6. Can you set a difference level were mob try to ignore character that are much higher than them ?

*edit: *
10 levels difference reduce aggro radius but not by much from my test.
Any very low level mob should ignore completely or fear very high level character. They should only react if attacked.
It’s clearly not a priority but a quality of life change.

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" Healing generates threat equal to the amount of health that is healed by the spell. If you cast Sacred Ground but no one stands in the AoE, no threat will be generated. But if you heal a damaged player for 150 health, you will generate 150 threat towards every AI already in combat in the area who is aware of you."

This is not a good system.
Because of this, if I heal myself while someone runs through a a mob group, aggroing every mob, I end up taking the aggro? Why does that make sense? Taking aggro of EVERY AI IN COMBAT regardless of whether you are healing someone they have aggro developed against, is a terrible system and is an easy way to grief healers that are minding their own business, whether it is intentional or not.

I actually thought this was a bug. This was intentional? Why?

If I heal someone who has aggro, sure, I am okay with generating aggro based off of that. If I heal someone that has no aggro or 1 aggro, I should not generate full aggro of every enemy around me that is in combat. It should be proportional. If I have 0 aggro and heal MYSELF, I should generate 0 aggro.

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But wasnt the Keyword

From that i figure if the mob is not aware of you, you dont generate aggro towards it even if the mob is in combat. As long as the mob is not aware of you, you should be fine.

Now the next Question is how do we know if the mob is aware of us or not since there is no clear indicator for that.

Sure you can see if you have the main aggro of the mob if the color around the lifebar of the mob changes to red but there is no real way to determin if the mob is aware of us or not.

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I’d like it to be a different colour/selectable too.

image

Something to make it stand out more amongst the sea of red.

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The biggest problem with tanking in this game is that it is generally just trash.

Problems:

To generate threat you need to damage the boss but to survive the boss you should be dodging and blocking attacks, at that point you are no longer generating threat.

You are forced to run taunting gems in your weapons? why not just have some passive talent that enables this instead or even a switch on a weapon to enable taunting and threat.

The NPCs push you around so much that it is hard not to just end up in a corner and hope for the best with the crappiest camera angle in the world.

If the boss mob is just a scaled up version of something else normally the hit box is broken so you can’t even melee it.

The two taunts you have are a 20 second and 40 second cooldown…

Honestly coming from any other game where tanking is a thing and coming to this you just feel like the mechanics behind it a piss poor and not thought about in the slightest.

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That yellow clashes with the layout for elite mobs

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