You have already stated you don’t PvP. So, what will make someone like you want to PvP? Make it so that the bonus outweighs your thoughts of risk. If you decide that risk too much? Then don’t have PvP on.
If you don’t like PvP at all, nothing is going to get you to want to PvP really. There’s nothing wrong with that but making it free or costing something doesn’t change it for you.
I would like to add even for hardcore PvPers right now there are problems still. I think it feels braindead for the respawn aspect. You kill and they respawn 50 ft away at a fireplace you can’t destroy for example.
Also, the numbers i am using in the example is just an example. Gold could be lowered and bonuses higher. Make people that never PvP may want to turn it on every now and then
I PvP, but I think we just need PvP only worlds. You are not going to make PvE players flag for PvP for added risk, they already think there is too much risk in flagging for PvP.
The reward is too low right now. Risk > reward. I think there needs to be a balance that is roughly 50-50. Where 50% of players say : “hey this risk is definitely worth it for the added exp etc.” and others say nope. Hard to get this balance but no where are we near that right now.
The problem with only increasing reward without risk in OWPVP is that players will exploit this.
And there’s the problem; You don’t balance things with the intent to drive players away.
Thinking ‘If only 50% of the player base wants to use this, it’s balanced’ is possibly the worst mindset to have when balancing anything in a game.
Ideally, you want a system that invites new players and the PvP-shy to try it, because that’s how you get new players and PvPers.
Imagine going into a work meeting for New Worlds and your pitch is ‘Well, 50% of the people will hate it, but that’s fine; it’s not for THEM!’ would get your coworkers to go
Imagine if you tried to use that to sell a game on it’s own ‘It’s hard, but it’s BALANCED because only 50% of the demographic will like it!’
50% does not always mean ‘balanced’. And you want a system that, again, invites newbies to try it. Jacking up the entry bar for it by adding a monetary loss does nothing but make YOU feel better that it’s ‘high risk’.
It in no way ‘improves’ the PvP like your title says. it just makes it worse for anyone but the hardcore crowd.
And you want know something? You can’t market something with ongoing costs like an MMO to the ‘hardcore’ crowd; it is NOT a large enough player pool to sustain it. You can tell by the way every hardcore PvP MMO has died.
I like the risk and reward for pvp. Or pvp that are related to resources in the game. However, people are already complaining about level gaps in pvp so I have a feeling that not many people would like it.
I think having a high reward in forms of bonuses can work to a certain degree without risk. But wouldn’t everyone just have PvP on? I guess that solves the problem of PvP dead in some servers. In others it would be chaotic.
The 50% mindset is not to the whole game which is kinda what you are implying. It is to a game mode. You don’t have to have it on. Right now it’s probably 5% of players are pvp. Got to raise that. But we don’t want to raise it to the point that it is 100% . Game is not worth playing if PvP is not on due to lack of bonuses but bonuses are worth it when I feel more aware. When I want to chill I don’t have to have it on.
And also your statement of high risk reward in MMO PvP that are dead is not true . Arguably the most popular MMO of all time had a VERY high risk reward PVP system: RuneScape. The game was one of the most popular of all time for multiple years and still to this day is somewhat popular (at least in terms of a 20+ year old game).
In fact, when the developers got rid of the high risk and rewards aspects of the game in pvp, the population fell off a cliff and they had to revert the changes so the majority of the population would come back to the game. More to that story than just that but yeah…
Hmmm… Imo, the faction PvP rewards you can only buy with PvP faction coin and the extra XP for quests & kills while flagged is quite good rewards. Adding more to that vendor so we can buy would be an easy addition over time. Not needed just yet, perhaps.
What we do need is a quick, simple & most importantly… no hassle way to join, start learning PvP. It’s hard to do this in owpvp as levels & numbers make it mostly unfair. For a newbie this is a depressingly put-off situation.
We need PvP Battlegrounds - simple 5 vs. 5, 10 vs. 10 etc. PvP that we can simply join (maybe from lvl 20) to learn our skills etc. This readies newbies for owpvp and the bigger, more chaotic wars etc.
Islands (mentioned in another post) might work here. Join from a coastal town, catch a quick boat to the island and fight a small match against other faction/s. Maybe 1 or 2 are island territory to fight over while others are special, precious resources or a magical, mysterious ruin or temple location. Keep it all in-lore, low-magic and authentic to the game rather than just copying the battlegrounds of other MMOs.
Also, maybe arena’s might be opened at earlier level, or better yet give us a “fight pit” to practice for the arena in-character. The problem may be these can be a bit high profile, to much responsibility on PvP skills for a newbie rather than the more forgiving, nameless battleground matches. Unless these were for 5 vs. 5 then that may be ok.
The “forcing” of PvP with a complex skull system etc seems counter-productive and would only work for those who PvP anyway. Then the gap between papers & PvP-shy grows larger as the skilled PvPer gets the bonuses, riches & resources while the PvP-shy slowly continue their slow grind until eventually fading away or reaching 60. What we need is expanding the PvP player base rather than putting people off. A few extra gold & XP likely won’t be effective enough. Good idea though.
I like the idea of arena and even battle grounds but to me that’s not exactly what the designers were going for. I like the idea of open world pvp that is not always large scale fights and has some risk to it. It’s nice to be doing a quest and see someone else flagged for pvp, knowingly that we are about to essentially 1v1 and the loser loses his pvp quests he recent accomplished. I think that just needs to be expanded more since the rewards are not great and it is only applied to people already doing pvp. I have pvp on no matter what. But how do you get people to turn pvp on that don’t pvp. The faction PvP rewards are great early on but fall off hard imo compared to elite open world and dungeon equipment and also faction points can be retrieved without pvp. Yes pvp missions speed it up so thats a plus.
The idea of the pvp island seems like it would be one huge war in large scale fighting. Again, I think that gets old very fast and we basically already have that: Warring between factions. But thats still better than nothing and completely agree i would not be opposed to it.
Good points and I agree on the design philosophy but the suggestion of arena/battleground is to try and get and encourage low level newbie PvPer to train up a bit as PvP really needs practice… a lot of practice and if you’ve never really done it much when do you get the chance. You just die, Res and lose durability. Once newbies have experienced a bit of PvP they will lbe more likely to engage in open world PvP.
For sure more the better. If they can keep it all in lore and authentic while opening our options… Would be great and I’d love to see fair, open world fights happening spontaneously as well. Couldn’t agree more. Fingers crossed
(1) You want players to pay to be ganked by musket snipers. Even if you approached with melee, the time required to disengage from a node means they have no chance.
This is the type of toxic behavior that AGS wanted no place in their game.
(2) More and more incentives is not the answer. ESO and SWTOR proved it already.
In fact if the incentive becomes too good, that’s all players will flag for. They will do the minimum or find an exploit to get the incentive then get out. And it will create resentment that they “have to PvP” to get it exclusive items.
(3) The PvP population is lousy because PvP is lousy.
Right now we have settlement control contested every 10 minutes because a lone gunman can throw a region into conflict. You have no enjoyment of your PvP gains.
And once you get into war, the enemy can manufacture lag and win in 10 minutes. You don’t even get a fighting chance.
Fix the underlying systems.
PROVE THAT PVP IS FUN.
Then people will flag to try it.
When it’s not fun, people who aren’t into PvP won’t bother. And suggestions from PvPers – like yours suggesting people pay to be ganked – make PvP even LESS FUN to want to flag for. Furthermore it just reinforces the image that PvPers are toxic seal clubbers. Why would anyone be encouraged to try PvP?
This is the same in every MMO that has tried to save PvP.
The PvP community needs to look at how they are destroying PvP with all types of exploitation, from spawn farming to manufacturing lags. That is really what is killing PvP. Same in every MMO where they have to try to save PvP.
1.) Not paying to be ganked by snipers. It is a small fee for a bonus that flags you for that bonus. It is your choice whether you want to essentially pay for that risk or not. The bonus works both for the skillers and questers and for pvpers and pvpers vs pvpers.
2.) More incentive WITH risk involved imo is the answer. It just needs to be balanced correctly and that is really hard to do. I get that and is why i posted this for ideas and thoughts.
3.) If you don’t like pvp then no need to play pvp. It is not forced on you. I will go back to my statement that the designers seemed to want to put an optional openworld type pvp in play for players that while doing questing/skilling there’s a “danger” of other players. It is a choice that you have to be flagged for it. I like that feeling of the danger and I believe other players do too and realistically it’s not all about just player vs player, the “danger” part makes it fun (though that statement seems odd but it is true). Your feeling of “danger” can scale on how much bonus to risk you want.
And when am I saying people will be paid to be ganked? They are paying for a bonus and if they do not die they do not lose the payment. The bonus scales on how much you want to risk to reward payment. But bottom line is, if that risk outweighs the benefits for you then you don’t flag for pvp. Arena pvp as mentioned should still be an addition to this as a more friendly pvp type that can get players use to pvp combat in the game.
You seem mad by the entire discussion. Kinda seems like you are the toxic one to be honest.
If they made PvP pay to turn on it will further discourage people from turning on PvP in the open world because they will just ganked on, and it will encourage more people to make those stupid “gank trains” that they already do even without the incentive and go chase lower level players.
Yes it does seem the leveling is an issue. Good point. Though I am not exactly sure how to balance that. PvP scaling seems difficult in open world and some pvp players will never feel the urge to want to lvl up or get better equipment. Again, should be a balance here. My thoughts is just no level higher than 10 can attack you and you can’t attach anything lower than 10. Problem is with that though is it makes faction fights very odd. So really I don’t know the solution to that one.
The pay to open world pvp type can also reduce some gank trains in some ways. First, it would be harder to find people as a train. More people will be spread out too. Second, there’s still ways to die here, the pvpers would have risk too and that solves a large problem in the game right now: you kill someone and they spawn 30 ft from you and run back to you. It is exhausting. Like I just want to farm this ore spot or finish running back from pvp quest, I dont want to fight you 5 times. It’s ridiculous that person is given so many chances to kill me. It gets to the point where the pvper is technically trolling me in some ways. These trains will meet other trains too and these larger fights wil actually end eventually unlike the cases now where dying/spawning makes no sense.
Arena pvp would not have the pay to play type thing.
Also, as a skiller i could sneak away from some shrine and go in middle of nowhere and woodcut or whatever it is. Again, it allows me skill while having that danger while hiding feeling (i am skilling X amount faster due to it). If it’s just one or two people i will try to fight it. Or i may try to flee etc. If i have the optional recall payment i can recall back with resources free of charge.
The payments for these bonuses and thus being flagged for pvp is again just as an example i put. They could easily be lowered by a lot to make it less risky. There should be a somewhat good balance.
Again, just thoughts. I am not trying to throw a hammer down here haha
