PVP - Discussion on risk/reward improvement For All Types of Players (even those that are primarily non-pvp)

General Discussion General Discussion
1

PVP needs more incentive to all types of players. And I mean it should be incentive so that it is a high risk / high reward for questers, skillers, pvpers, farmers and power levelers. It should still be an option to whether you want to pvp or not just like it is now but make it a risk and reward play type and allow each player to choose how high risk/reward they want:

Example:

Players that want bonuses in game have option to turn on PVP by paying a gold deposit and in return they are marked with skulls 1-4 depending on their tier of risk/reward they have chosen:

Tier 1 Option: Pay 50 gold deposit to turn on pvp with bonuses:
15% exp gain / 10% gather speed and gathering / 10% defense stats / 10% damage stats / 1.5% more luck for rare items and resources
-you are marked with 1 skull that all pvp players see

Tier 2 Option: Pay 100 gold deposit to turn on pvp with bonuses:
20% exp gain / 20% harvest speeds / 15% defense and damage / 3% more luck for rare items from resources and drops
-you are marked with 2 skulls that all pvp players see

Tier 3 Option: Pay 150 gold deposit to turn on pvp with bonuses:
25% exp gain / 25% harvest speed and gathering / 20% damage and defense/ 5% luck for rare items
-you are marked with 3 skulls that all pvp players see

Additional Option: after choosing tier payment: Pay additional 100 deposit gold for
that tier bonus as above but receive ability to recall to your hometown without cool down. Adds 1 skull to above types.

Incentives for each different role of preferences:

The pvper:
When a person dies, the pvper that gets the kill (or most damage?) gets the gold depossited by the player that died. If that player “gives up”, that counts as a kill. High risk pvpers will want to pay the 150 for extra damage and def. Kills between a team (group max of 5) is split between players. Exp and weapon exp is given to player also.

The skiller: bonuses to speed of skilling, harvest resource gains, and chance at rare items.

Quester and power levelers: all quests completed also get the % bonus exp and leveling is much faster in all regards due to bonuses damage and % exp given. Must have started the quest and finished the quest with PVP enabled without disabling PVP at anytime between.

Item Farmers: obviously the same but can be really good with % of rare items especially at elite areas. Though dungeon instances don’t apply bonuses.

NOTES:

  • Skulls are shown to PVP players only. People without pvp on cannot see skulls. This can help prevent scouting situations.

  • Anyone who doesn’t want the risk of pvp and does not care about the bonuses or just wants to relax can turn pvp off in towns or shrines just like how it Is now. When turning off pvp and you had it on previously but didn’t die: the gold is refunded . It is a deposit for death purposes only.

  • Non-pvpers that want the bonuses will have that sense of “always on the lookout” when they have the deposit down and using the bonuses. This in itself can be fun at times.

  • Gold is simply exchanged hands and thus is not causing risk of exploits.

  • All numbers for gold and bonuses used here are just examples and obviously can be changed. The idea of paying a deposit risk for a bonus while other players see that you are “risking” more via skulls is the actual idea to be discussed here.

  • Dying to monsters counts as a death and player loses their deposit.

  • If a player does damage to the person that dies from the monster it still counts as a kill and the pvper will receive the gold.

Thoughts?

2 Likes
2

How many more topics are we going to make about this?:rofl:
They should add a PVP section on the forum

1 Like
3

I agree, pvp needs a subsection. But mostly I have only seen ideas for pvp worlds and incentives for the actual pvpers. I think we need to focus on ideas that bring incentive to the people that DON’T like to pvp at all. They have pvp on but aren’t looking to fight or find other players. This will get everyone on board.

4

like any other mmo with pvp in it?
what a new idea…
amazon sucks in so many ways, its incredible.

5

I don’t PvP but in no way should PvP players have to PAY to PvP. That’s just a horrible idea.

1 Like
6

I think you may not understand the fact that when something is at risk when pvping, it is more competitive and fun. If you lose, you lose something of value (though nothing super major). Yes, if you want to pvp and not lose anything this is where arenas can come in play and that’s another discussion all itself.

But for this idea, You aren’t paying to PVP. You are paying if you die (and gold is technically just time in the game right? Just like every MOBA and battle royale game, You spend time gathering X to get stronger, if you die, you lose X or the game is simply over). Most competitive games in the world have this same outline.

When something is at risk for the people that aren’t pvping but want bonuses: Well even this can be fun because to some degree will be that sneaking around “on your toes” type feeling. Find excluded areas. Find spots that others don’t use or know about. Etc.

If you don’t want to risk then don’t, but you don’t get the bonues.

Also, duels are still enabled just like they are now. Those will not be considered risk/reward pvp.

7

So basically, you want to add risk to PvP that will further chase away those who dislike PvPing?
Because why would I pay to PvP up, only to then die while gathering materials, and thus lose my money, AND have to repair my gear?
Or I can not PvP and get those materials. Sure, I get less per node, but I don’t risk losing gold and wasted time.

Making the risk bigger does not make PvP better, and it will only serve to chase away players who are not hardcore PvPers.

There’s 0 actual reason to make PvP cost money, other than ‘big risk’. At least, to me.

1 Like
8

You have already stated you don’t PvP. So, what will make someone like you want to PvP? Make it so that the bonus outweighs your thoughts of risk. If you decide that risk too much? Then don’t have PvP on.

If you don’t like PvP at all, nothing is going to get you to want to PvP really. There’s nothing wrong with that but making it free or costing something doesn’t change it for you.

I would like to add even for hardcore PvPers right now there are problems still. I think it feels braindead for the respawn aspect. You kill and they respawn 50 ft away at a fireplace you can’t destroy for example.

Also, the numbers i am using in the example is just an example. Gold could be lowered and bonuses higher. Make people that never PvP may want to turn it on every now and then

9

I PvP, but I think we just need PvP only worlds. You are not going to make PvE players flag for PvP for added risk, they already think there is too much risk in flagging for PvP.

10

The reward is too low right now. Risk > reward. I think there needs to be a balance that is roughly 50-50. Where 50% of players say : “hey this risk is definitely worth it for the added exp etc.” and others say nope. Hard to get this balance but no where are we near that right now.

The problem with only increasing reward without risk in OWPVP is that players will exploit this.

11

And there’s the problem; You don’t balance things with the intent to drive players away.
Thinking ‘If only 50% of the player base wants to use this, it’s balanced’ is possibly the worst mindset to have when balancing anything in a game.

Ideally, you want a system that invites new players and the PvP-shy to try it, because that’s how you get new players and PvPers.
Imagine going into a work meeting for New Worlds and your pitch is ‘Well, 50% of the people will hate it, but that’s fine; it’s not for THEM!’ would get your coworkers to go :man_facepalming:

Imagine if you tried to use that to sell a game on it’s own ‘It’s hard, but it’s BALANCED because only 50% of the demographic will like it!’
50% does not always mean ‘balanced’. And you want a system that, again, invites newbies to try it. Jacking up the entry bar for it by adding a monetary loss does nothing but make YOU feel better that it’s ‘high risk’.

It in no way ‘improves’ the PvP like your title says. it just makes it worse for anyone but the hardcore crowd.
And you want know something? You can’t market something with ongoing costs like an MMO to the ‘hardcore’ crowd; it is NOT a large enough player pool to sustain it. You can tell by the way every hardcore PvP MMO has died.

12

I like the risk and reward for pvp. Or pvp that are related to resources in the game. However, people are already complaining about level gaps in pvp so I have a feeling that not many people would like it.

13

I agree, I think the reward needs to be higher. A lot more XP, a lot more ressources while gathering etc.

14

I think having a high reward in forms of bonuses can work to a certain degree without risk. But wouldn’t everyone just have PvP on? I guess that solves the problem of PvP dead in some servers. In others it would be chaotic.

The 50% mindset is not to the whole game which is kinda what you are implying. It is to a game mode. You don’t have to have it on. Right now it’s probably 5% of players are pvp. Got to raise that. But we don’t want to raise it to the point that it is 100% . Game is not worth playing if PvP is not on due to lack of bonuses but bonuses are worth it when I feel more aware. When I want to chill I don’t have to have it on.

And also your statement of high risk reward in MMO PvP that are dead is not true . Arguably the most popular MMO of all time had a VERY high risk reward PVP system: RuneScape. The game was one of the most popular of all time for multiple years and still to this day is somewhat popular (at least in terms of a 20+ year old game).
In fact, when the developers got rid of the high risk and rewards aspects of the game in pvp, the population fell off a cliff and they had to revert the changes so the majority of the population would come back to the game. More to that story than just that but yeah…

15

Hmmm… Imo, the faction PvP rewards you can only buy with PvP faction coin and the extra XP for quests & kills while flagged is quite good rewards. Adding more to that vendor so we can buy would be an easy addition over time. Not needed just yet, perhaps.

What we do need is a quick, simple & most importantly… no hassle way to join, start learning PvP. It’s hard to do this in owpvp as levels & numbers make it mostly unfair. For a newbie this is a depressingly put-off situation.

We need PvP Battlegrounds - simple 5 vs. 5, 10 vs. 10 etc. PvP that we can simply join (maybe from lvl 20) to learn our skills etc. This readies newbies for owpvp and the bigger, more chaotic wars etc.

Islands (mentioned in another post) might work here. Join from a coastal town, catch a quick boat to the island and fight a small match against other faction/s. Maybe 1 or 2 are island territory to fight over while others are special, precious resources or a magical, mysterious ruin or temple location. Keep it all in-lore, low-magic and authentic to the game rather than just copying the battlegrounds of other MMOs.

Also, maybe arena’s might be opened at earlier level, or better yet give us a “fight pit” to practice for the arena in-character. The problem may be these can be a bit high profile, to much responsibility on PvP skills for a newbie rather than the more forgiving, nameless battleground matches. Unless these were for 5 vs. 5 then that may be ok.

The “forcing” of PvP with a complex skull system etc seems counter-productive and would only work for those who PvP anyway. Then the gap between papers & PvP-shy grows larger as the skilled PvPer gets the bonuses, riches & resources while the PvP-shy slowly continue their slow grind until eventually fading away or reaching 60. What we need is expanding the PvP player base rather than putting people off. A few extra gold & XP likely won’t be effective enough. Good idea though. :slight_smile:

16

I like the idea of arena and even battle grounds but to me that’s not exactly what the designers were going for. I like the idea of open world pvp that is not always large scale fights and has some risk to it. It’s nice to be doing a quest and see someone else flagged for pvp, knowingly that we are about to essentially 1v1 and the loser loses his pvp quests he recent accomplished. I think that just needs to be expanded more since the rewards are not great and it is only applied to people already doing pvp. I have pvp on no matter what. But how do you get people to turn pvp on that don’t pvp. The faction PvP rewards are great early on but fall off hard imo compared to elite open world and dungeon equipment and also faction points can be retrieved without pvp. Yes pvp missions speed it up so thats a plus.

The idea of the pvp island seems like it would be one huge war in large scale fighting. Again, I think that gets old very fast and we basically already have that: Warring between factions. But thats still better than nothing and completely agree i would not be opposed to it.

17

Good points and I agree on the design philosophy but the suggestion of arena/battleground is to try and get and encourage low level newbie PvPer to train up a bit as PvP really needs practice… a lot of practice and if you’ve never really done it much when do you get the chance. You just die, Res and lose durability. Once newbies have experienced a bit of PvP they will lbe more likely to engage in open world PvP.

18

Yup agreed. Would be great if we had all 3 haha !

19

For sure :slight_smile: more the better. If they can keep it all in lore and authentic while opening our options… Would be great and I’d love to see fair, open world fights happening spontaneously as well. Couldn’t agree more. Fingers crossed

20

NO.

(1) You want players to pay to be ganked by musket snipers. Even if you approached with melee, the time required to disengage from a node means they have no chance.
This is the type of toxic behavior that AGS wanted no place in their game.

(2) More and more incentives is not the answer. ESO and SWTOR proved it already.
In fact if the incentive becomes too good, that’s all players will flag for. They will do the minimum or find an exploit to get the incentive then get out. And it will create resentment that they “have to PvP” to get it exclusive items.

(3) The PvP population is lousy because PvP is lousy.
Right now we have settlement control contested every 10 minutes because a lone gunman can throw a region into conflict. You have no enjoyment of your PvP gains.
And once you get into war, the enemy can manufacture lag and win in 10 minutes. You don’t even get a fighting chance.

Fix the underlying systems.
PROVE THAT PVP IS FUN.
Then people will flag to try it.
When it’s not fun, people who aren’t into PvP won’t bother. And suggestions from PvPers – like yours suggesting people pay to be ganked – make PvP even LESS FUN to want to flag for. Furthermore it just reinforces the image that PvPers are toxic seal clubbers. Why would anyone be encouraged to try PvP?

This is the same in every MMO that has tried to save PvP.

The PvP community needs to look at how they are destroying PvP with all types of exploitation, from spawn farming to manufacturing lags. That is really what is killing PvP. Same in every MMO where they have to try to save PvP.

1 Like