“brain-dead MMO” is one with pvp. Instead of adding compelling content they try to lure the masses that have no interest in pvp into flagging to make them content for the extremely loud minority. Carrots like gathering and loot luck bonuses are dangled.
nothing like loading for 5 minutes only to get head eyed 3 seconds later.
but damnit i enjoyed hitting my head against a rock some times.
How? do explain as I am curious what you would consider brain-dead regarding PvP.
I did explain it. Instead of adding more compelling pve content they take the lazy way and let you be the content. A minority of mmo players are into pvp. This fact needs to be realized. Sure they can make you this glorious pvp server. The few hundred people that go there will get bored shortly after and quit or come back to a real server. The grand pvp wizards in New World don’t want good pvp…they want easy targets and kills. It’s all about them getting off on harassing those not interested in pvp and only flag for the bullshit bonus. This is why they advocate for keeping this idiotic gathering/loot luck flagging bonus.
Minority? lol how did you come out with that conclusion? it’s a fact? Aside from that it doesn’t explain the brain-dead part I was asking about. PvP is generally more competitive and requires more skill than the majority of PvE content/mechanics here on NW or any other game that has both PvP and PvE… I don’t know who you’re listening to, thinking they are the “Grand pvp wizards” but clearly you’re out of touch. stop listening to trolls…
The average PvP player shouldn’t incentivize for anything ez mode regarding PvP, that’s not us- nor do we condone it. we want the challenge, no cheese please…
no, honestly that’s the plebs/casuals that want these ez mode changes/solutions…
Personally, if you ever played DAoC, you’d know that the majority of PvP players aren’t what you’re speaking up on. That’s just your average normal player that wants everything spoon-fed vs the competition or effort put in to be competitive.
As for a PvP server, meh, I just want a zone dedicated to PvP, perhaps instanced, but no cap on population as to how many people can be there. a real war zone: Like DAoC’s Frontier zones. Realm Ranks, Relics, PvEvP dungeon. it’s exciting to me (yes, this is subjective )
Except that’s the type of PvPers that came to New World.
AGS couldn’t handle all the cheating and exploiting so it basically went unchecked without bans.
Most of the legit want-a-challenge PvPers quit shortly after launch.
The remaining population were increasingly those who quickly adopted any cheese and exploits such as deliberately triggering lag with Ice Gauntlet, and shaking the window for invincibility. After that came macros to exploit mechanics and we got magic staff machinegunning. It was literally a new cheat or exploit every week and they all came to the forums calling it “skill”.
That’s the “skilled PvP” in New World – skill at using cheats, finding exploits, and programming macros.
And as soon as Outpost Rush went live, there were cheaters in so many matches that it started to kill the game mode right away. Shortly after, people couldn’t get the mode to pop for hours. And why should they bother to play with cheaters and exploiters?
Whatever the initial proportion of legit PvPers, they quickly became a minority and damn near extinct after the first couple of months.
Now all you see on the forums are PvPers begging for action and wanting to force players to PvP with them. The game mode is basically dead and it’s the players who want to PvP who keep killing every attempt to revive it.
When Arenas come out, probably two things will make it DOA – no proper league system resulting in constant bad matchups; and cheaters and exploiters.
I don’t foresee the arenas being a big deal either considering most New World (and mmo players in general) don’t care about mmo pvp. Real pvpers play game with combat systems and modes that actually work well for it. There’s no way to balance gear in an mmo for pvp. Pvp ruins mmo’s because of this constant search for unachievable balance in pvp while evacuating the same gear for pve.
Nobody should have to deal with that unfortunately it’s true that people in this game love, and I mean LOVE to exploit or simply cheat… But that’s not PvPers doing that, while I agree that you see it more frequent in OPR- as this is the competitive side of the game (to some degree) I first started noticing it when I would get in dungeons or mutations- the PvE content.
“Oh skip this pack, and stand here, or climb here and they glitch out so we can just have this room to deal with” or “Go prone right here on this edge so we can cheese the boss”…
What sucks is we see exploiters go anywhere they want, same goes for cheaters (until they are caught enough times to warrant a ban/or action from the staff/team) it’s not the PvPers that want any of this, it’s not the PvE’ers that want it either. it’s simply douche bags that do this in general. not a specific group of players. Doesn’t even matter what game it is. They will always exist. The problem is, they for some reason, still have a voice to opinions, when clearly it’s a troll tactic to keep the game in a instable state. You know this already seeing how you mentioned:
This goes for PvE’ers as well. I know several threads where PvE’ers would complain the game lacks content- but it’s the same players that will bypass the game’s content to go loot a chest and cheese bosses for ez loots. Like- you’re (people in general, not YOU ) actively bypassing the very content you’re stating is missing or a “lack thereof” said content. lol the logic kills me…
As of now, we have a few types of players left, and the minority of these groups are simply good people vs bad people. Whereas the good players will actively try to help the game’s success and find a medium ground to present as an argument of change, vs people who want to watch the world burn. Both PvP and PvE players.
I read awhile back that a game (I think it was fortnite or overwatch) banned 1/10th of it’s playerbase/population… I was blown away for the reasons why, simply Hackers/exploiters were banned because, well… they hacked or exploited and deserved it, but it showed that todays gamers aren’t capable of being good or competitive without a crutch. 1 and 10 players were cheating XD that’s a huge number considering the game in question had millions of players.
I don’t think Arenas will solve anything particular, aside from maybe showcasing the meta that could result in better balance. but that’s a fat “Could”.
PvP players will like Arenas sure, but I label myself as a PvP first, PvE second type of player and I wont really get a dip on Arenas much… I want open-world to be my PvP, and right now there aren’t many ways to find open-world PvP without being called a prick or other names alike lol So a PvP server WOULD be neat, but even that would become stale… We as PvP players want content or meaning behind PvP situations… Pushing territories aren’t it for me… wars aren’t it for me… OPR isn’t either… while it’s fun at times (if I’m not Desyncing my bawlz off) I want something more meaningful and more in depth aside from, “Hey guys, stand near this flag post and wait for it to be yours”… that’s so bland and too simple for my taste. I want a frontier zone, like how DAoC did their RvR. a zone you port to where there are keeps/castles to siege, Guards to kill, a door to smash down like the siren’s brute door, and a lord to kill before your realm could take a claim to said keep… not this, flag point stuff. that’s meh to me. I want more immersion just like a PvE player would want the same concept for their content.
The type of PvPers that came to NW aren’t just plebs or casuals, I know you know this already because you stated the real ones left already (most of them) which leaves nothing but- the plebs/casuals that want spoon fed by AGS and others that don’t pertain to this argument ofc.
There are always going to be bad apples. I’m just wanting a medium to meet in the middle for these new ideas. not just to argue about nonsense.
I’ve advocated for a lot of change, but never a direct nerf to anything aside from Roots, resulting in a DR system that’s done correctly, to prevent “Spam” over skill while maintaining the same effects and durations of roots or CC in general. I don’t like seeing VG getting a duration nerf to scream while the main issue is roots in general. which lead me to diminishing returns to CC spam.
I also advocated for a more separate versions of PvP such as:
But, I’m mainly a PvP first type of guy… THAT is where the real minority lies. which is sad because I hate the ez mode cheese, I hate the CC spam, I hate all the same things most people dislike about this game’s mechanics. but instead of asking for x,y,z, to be nerffed, I wanted to maintain the roots of the mechanics, but polish them up for ALL involved, not just for me, even though it pertains to me.
We have a real problem with players being legit vs being argumentative based on being bias.
I’m tired of arguing with people that don’t want to help, they’d rather just argue and talk more shit on the game in question. Blame the players, not AGS, even though it’s their system, it’s not their fault people are acting like clowns. it’s the clowns to blame, that ruined it for literally everyone good natured about how things should work.
Like literally, everyone hates the CC spam… but any mention of DRs (if done the way I have mentioned it in many threads) they all hate the idea, and the ones that would generally agree with me, are nowhere to be found… what to do… what to do… Can’t make anyone happy.
There is a big difference between using an exploit to be invulnerable in pvp and using terrain to be invulnerable in pve against a boss.
Im not advocating cheating. The guild i am in has a hard stance on this topic.
However, cheating another player where you get better rewards and cause the other to get worse rewards IS NOT the same as choosing to use terrain to your advantage in an expedition regardless of if that is intended or not.
The earlier has a clear victim the later is at worst a victimless crime.
Again not endorsing the behavior just adding some contrast to the two.
Pvp cheaters are intentionally cheating other players.
Pve cheaters generally are only shortcutting content that shortens their playloop. The pvp participants doing this in pve are again doing this for an unfair advantage: faster better loot.
They use to beat the honest players. However, everyone can do this and generally is allowed and unpunished so everyone does it to keep up.
The bottomline most people look at cheats and cheese in pve and pvp completely different. Another reason linking the two ecosystems is always a mess.
Dr would be good for both pve and pvp. It would help tanks in pve. It would help open possibilities for builds when hammers cant stun lock bosses and keep trash knocked down. Ot would make pvp barable for many. Why this isnt a thing is beside me.
Just make “PVP Lakes” like we had in Warhammer Online.
Shift the way we flip territories now, over to a Battle Objective approach. So there are ~3 BOs surrounding each Fort with a “PVP Lake” that auto-flags anyone who goes into that area.
To declare war on a zone, you need to capture the BOs, and then hold the fort for X minutes or whatever. Plenty of ways to do this.
As you said you start capping, it notifies the region that these BOs are flipping. People can go defend it. OR maybe a 3rd faction wants to go fight because THEY want to declare war.
Basically “shift” declaring war, from doing stupid PVP Quests, over to actually doing PVP in that zone over BOs.
Once the Fort is capped in the zone on the map, then the contribution of influence stuff applies (like it does now) and someone declares war for ownership of the zone.
Heck, this could even become your “PRACTICE” war situation they talked about. Maybe reward Cashes for putting the zone into a contested state.
There is so much they could do here, that DOESNT need to revolve around Gathering Resources.
right though forced lakes, id rather not only because there is soo many areas in the game, those pois also have stuff for questers and pve players to go do so just having something there that you interact with only when you are pvp flagged would be simple.
but basically all of that.
if its a lake out in the middle of a field with no poi then thats boring (though more realistic with no cover which is a problem with wars anyway)
(only reason i suggested company rewards is so that companies can all decide to do cool stuff. there is zero insentives for a small company to go out and help a push besides politicing some slots but with a small company goes out and captures a town poi for some income then there is a reason for them to try and sneak it, gain some funds to fund the rest of there company as a small company will NEVER get a territory and there ability to grow is stiffled as it is) even pve farming companies may want to send out some folks to grab a farm for harvesting bonuses or a logging thing for logging yield.
this is the kind of incentives that makes people want areas, not just a little bit of luck doing things that no one else cares about or everyone can do regardless of flag or not (chests))
Same, and I agree, there is a difference in someone exploiting a boss vs someone exploiting in a competitive situation such as OPR or PvP in general depending on the exploit. ie Someone exploiting an invulnerable bug, vs someone hiding from a boss to cheese it. BUT the base of the issue is a person(s) is still being a clown XD competitive vs other players or in a dungeon means very little when the outcome is only to benefit said player in the easiest way possible.
I just wish people would actually stop the nonsense and find a solution that’s better for the majority. but as I said already, some people want to watch the world burn… It just sucks that a lot of gamers nowadays are this way.
Maybe I didnt explain it right, or you didnt read what I wrote.
You would change how declaring war on a zone works. So rather than questing to get enough faction rep, to put a zone into contested state, you would go out into the world, enter a PVP Lake, and start capturing BOs (Objectives). Once the BOs are captured, you then go and “capture” the main fort.
Once that main fort is captured, the zone is contested, and companies can declare war (like we have now).
Once the zone is contested, Cashes would pay out to everyone who helped contribute. So there ARE objectives, there ARE rewards, heck maybe add a Gypsum in there as well.
These would be massively popular as people who are looking for PVP, can easily go find it. Open your map, see a zone owned by GREEN, has PURPLE owning some BOs. Fast Travel down there and BAM, go find some PVP in the “Lake”.
They dont have to be LARGE lakes either… For Example:
Here could be the “PVP Lake” as well as 3 “BOs”
I feel like its always been like this just the information explaining the cheats is a lot more available. Mostly due to streamers without a decent ethic. The idea that the more who know the better is absolut hog wash.
i think this type would absolutly be popular over the current run a train to the pvp faction mission for sure.
but imho a cache or gypsum isnt much of a incentive for people to come out besides for those that already want to be doing this stuff.
and its all individualized. id rather see a system setup to benifit individual companies so that when something is happening a company can decide to go do stuff.
caches just means that if i was bored nothing is going on and my company is off doing something else like dungeons then id just stop by wipe out my pvp set, smack some stuff around and just get my cache and leave. its no different from opr. especially if its just me. id not have a snowballs chance in hell to deck. imho cache rewards are fleeting like a butterflies kiss.
most of the time its just trash fodder.
the alternative that im envisioning is after a while a regions poi’s unlock, companies that give a damn about those areas will make a mad dash to raise the flag at various pois probably the most important one being any mines and caves for a mining yield bonus, the big ones fight over that, the little companies can sneak in and grab various other pois that people care less about like a logging camp or the farms. and this is not limited to the two factions fighting over it but all 3.
holding the poi adds to your whole factions influence, if you lose it you lose the influence.
you can still run faction missions to back fill any missing % and you dont lose it like the areas.
this changes how people can attempt to capture a territory too, build up some influence and then blindside the other zones and capture pois simultaniously.
decking remains the same.
once decked the region becomes locked and whatever pois your company controlls you get to keep it for that period.
some ideas on pois
mines - mining yield
farms - harvesting yield
logging camps - logging yield
fisheries - fishing yield? luck?
towns - luck / some kind of income % from the town, lump sum cash (probably luck as some areas have more town pois then other)
various pirate camps and enemie zones could give a small ward bonus for pvers
ultimately its something everyone would want to fight for and it benifits individual companies more so there is more insentives for the small companies to try somethin. maybe they will get more involved in pvp that way.
Depends on whats in the Cache. We also have a PVP “reward track” coming soon, maybe open world PVP is a factor there. Maybe you also throw in faction tokens, Umbral, etc. etc.
right as it is now though even the most basic rewards are really arbitrary. gypsums are super easy to get now, tokens are a joke, umbrals are a joke because of gypsums.
now if there was some better guarantee for pvp gear then maybe as thats ultimately where all the money ends up getting funneled into anyway. but then people would complain blah blah blah.
wait I still play and I for sure am a sweat-neck pvper and I don’t rely on exploits or cheats. They fixed a lot of exploits yeah I’m sure some are still around every game has them. I also know several people who have indeed been banned for cheating. Yeah, it took longer than I would like for them to get banned but they did get banned.
I see it as simple morals XD
They already give 200 faction tokens per kill or less if you killed the same target too fast. They need to make it if we kill a player they can drop the OPR rusher pvp gear that is 590-600 instead of this 500GS.
Sure it could be exploited but IDK maybe this is why every game adds in a combat log/kill spam log so people can see if someone is dying to the same target over and over.