PvP Will Always fail in the multiplayer RPG Genre

Good. this means you have no idea what I’m referring to in this thread.

Tab-target is not my focus, it is merely what I refer to when I say that stats like HP, ATK and DEF are outdated concepts in action MMORPGs where players join in for PvP. In PvE this is still fine. In fact, it can remain indefinitely for PvE and it will never be a problem. It is only in PvP in which this problem lies and why if they truly want to accommodate PvP they have to remove it.

No argument so far has been provided to support this other than feelings.

Feelings don’t bring in players, feelings don’t bring in financial profits. Your feelings are meaningless.

No sane game company is going to move to benefit the feelings of what is a population minority at best or the ravings of 2-3 persons on a busy street corner at worst.

None.

And this is black deset online proving me wrong?:
[General Discussion] Empty servers | Black Desert (playblackdesert.com)
It is the same, but so much better — MMORPG.com Forums

Just quick snippets but even here there are players complaining about gear PvP and on the forums and other various communities are players either suggesting to ignore PvP or the same “Wait to level up”

No one is going to do that these days when they can just join an FPS and get into it immediately.

Yeah there are mmos which can fit the genre of fighting game perfectly like dungeon fighter online and soul worker but I won’t call them full RPGs, that’s just my opinion, whether right or wrong is not important to me on that front.

The people that want 24/7 open world PvP are the same people that will sit in low level areas and constantly grief them. It causes people to quit and it never works out.

yes, the only way you can have a pvp system with big differences in power for time investment be successful over all,

is

  1. the game is fun even with less power
  2. make it so players rarely unwillingly face matches they have 90% chance to lose.

the people who say rpgs are all about leveling for power, are not imo correct, but even if they were, a pvprpg would need a different rule system to succeed.

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Funny rofl.
People who dont know about design tell other they know nothing.
People answer gear when we talk about gameplay loop design.

The pot calling the kettle black…
Anyway i let you know you descredited yourself in the Eyes of New world devs for the Xth times(and no i’m not AGS dev).

I’ll not bother any longer.

The game is literally dieing due to lack of PvP or PvP systems and mechanics not working.

Try and take in the facts.

I’d argue that there are probably some misunderstanding as to what they think open PvP is.

I also don’t really make the assumption that everyone is like that but your point has merit.

It’s stupid tho, I remember an MMORPG game where players could just enable PK and go blood red by barricading players in all cities and you couldn’t do anything to them because you’d do 1 hp damage to their 100k pool.

Well i remember the days of Ultima Online, if you are good you can kill 7x mage with apprentice mage.

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Your point on game loop design was irrelevant in the first place hence ignored.

The focus is on PvP and the stat mechanics which don’t transition over from PvE that well.

crazy crazy idea that was used way way back in 1999 with EQ you cant attack anyone X levels below you therefor ganking lowbies is no more.

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I don’t think it can be fixed in this way, all you’re really doing is asking for a massive nerf to a superior player who has taken the time to level and skill up. Basically you’re asking for a way to cheat against those high level players…

And what happens when you confront someone with the same new skills but they’re lv 60… you’ve just made them vastly more superior to what they were before.

I do like the ideas… but the argument behind it… is a poor one.
I think the idea in the post above is a better move. Just remove the damage and capability for players 2-3 levels above or below to hit you. Force lv 60’s to fight people lv 55+ for example…

If there is any way to level the playing field then by all means.

But as of right now, with the numbers game, PvP just isn’t worth it.

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And this right here is why Pvp Fails… to the Winners… it’s awesome great fun… but to the losers… it’s let’s play another game…

Not entirely true for FPS games where when you lose it’s easy to recognize that your skill was the problem. In RPGs there is some existential dread in that you’ll never catch up making them quit more so that just losing.

this is a valid method of solving the problem of preventing unwinnable fights, the problem is it creates the other thing pvp games need to succeed, which is a decent amount of fights.

one big things pvp games consider is trying to make it so there are always people to fight, you can only split your player base if you have a large pool of people to pull from. In New world the server/world is very important, and the server’s population is generally not going to be large enough to split all the pvp players into competitive groups, and still have a decent rate of conflict at all levels

After doing most things in Wildstar I tried instanced PvP there and to my surprise it was pretty fine for a PvE player. That game had separate gear stats for PvE and PvP and getting and maxing set of PvP gear was only a short and relatively easy grind. I was too late to experience 1st PvP season or get into arenas or warplots (which were ded) but battlegrounds were actually fun, beginner I could go all cc and glue enemy to ground and let better dps allies finish em.
Unfortunately later the primal matrix (vet progression) leaked to PvP and made everyone tanks. (Also 2nd PvP season lasted until servers shut down. Too bad.)

yeah yeah, in fps theres lag, cheater, glich, bad mouse, frame drop, etc etc. in mmorpg theres higher lvl, better gear, imballance, etc etc.

The ideal PvP game would be a game that has enough/decent enough PvE content to keep PvE players interested to play and the penalty of pvp death no severe enough for the PvE player to quit if they die. You need to make a PvE game basicly that has PvP in mind straigh away. PvP players need the PvE players in the game for content per say, because there the one farming in camps or harvesting if you have a game where its just pvp players you get a scenario where pvpers are just running around to empty camps and might get content if they just happen to run past somone else looking for fights at a perfect timing which is rarer.

its actually a very difficult thing to get right tbh especialy when a game company like were making a PvP game and then u have all the PvP players be like we dont want that or this thats for PvE we need thing that bring more PvP xcept when you think about it the player are content for PvPers so by adding PvE you give PvPer Content at the same time. Then give reason for PvP player to want to defend your PvE players on your faction then you got something going here.

Darkfall mistake was to heavy on PvP and high skill levels realy pushed everyone away dispite having reasonably interesting Mob AI at the time but new players and PvE players were somewhat hunted off the game due to being full loot and for what ever reason PvPer got so desperate for pvp they griefed the newbies off you sometimes had people body guard the newbies but was rarer since u got nothing out of it.
Crowfall Mistake was again not putting enough emphesis of PvE although they did have a bit more interesting crafting system they also dungoofed releasing the gamne to early missing features and lack of seige system (timer based where often no one would come so peopel would be chilling for an hour on a daily basis) and no territory system kinda killed that one too, it might come back when it can be called a released state atm there not enough to do appart from pvp but no one out in the world cause there nothing worth doing but pvp so camps are empty and cant raid cities pretty much due to walls being unable to be dmged outside of timers.

What i do find interesting is that PvE players play MMORPG instead of RPG games with possible muiltiplayer groupiong for dungeons and things like that kinda like Path of exile and things like that. They tend to play solo mainly occasionaly with guilds or randoms. however a non MMORPG RPG can offer more entertainign and unique fights and lmore detailed lore compared to MMO’s

to react on the above as it can happen in a full loot pvp mmo as well (no debate, just reaction)

the game seen in the following youtube links was a full loot sandbox mmo made in early 2000 :wink: (no instances, deep crafting, gathering, housing, lvl…you call it. Nothing can be more MMO’ish :slight_smile: )

first few sec of the youtube vid

from 30 sec
edit: (yes, they were able to swim a generation ago under the water in MMOs :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: )

full

The problems you listed for fps are present in action mmorpg too.