PvP Will Always fail in the multiplayer RPG Genre

zergs are player driven events that can be countered by player driven events - We do not have to brainstorm for hours why it could have any connection to MMOs as a platform. :slight_smile:

Just attaching this link here:

New World Ditches Full-Loot Free-For-All PvP In Favor Of More Controlled PvP Fights - MMOs.com

Full PvP was litterally the first thing Amazon tried and “PvP” players are the ones who killed it apparently.

So… yeah.

Now they have to prove why Amazon’s decision is wrong and the only thing they can bring up for reasoning is feelings.

They aren’t getting that PvP server.

In Wildstar (if I recall right) getting killed by a player did no gear damage and thus had no cost at all but waste of time. I actually flagged up few times for exp bonus to level alt but every time I eventually got a point where some 10+ lv over me was camping a choke point on way to a quest objective or a group with a higher lv babysitter was camping a questing area. After few deaths I unflagged at graveyard and did not flag any more.

Wildstar Holocrypt

Perhaps when you start blaming the systems and not the people you will see things differently.

I’m willing to change your mind on PvP but you’re stubbornly minded by the “numbers” game of the consumer base for games like WoW and FF14.

I’ve been a part of Korean mmo action for so long and the reason why those PvP games are low on numbers for the western market isn’t anything to do with PvP, which I’d be more than happy to explain.

You do know that you need to explain qgainst the reason Amazon themselves provided using solid evidence right?

It doesn’t matter how you feel about it.

Their initial run of the game was PvP and the test said no.

That’s EXTREMELY solid evidence against PvP.

Nevermind numbers, it didn’t even reach the point of imbalance, it’s just players/people themselves.

Your argument needs to be air-tight.

Your argument needs to be air-tight.

I’m in total agreement with that as the western audience leads and developer’s have been nothing but dissapointing toward you and many.

It’s pretty embarressing really that a game made in Japan , FF14, designed for consoles with lightweight mmo practices has currently taken the “top spot” (does it beat WoW on numbers?) and hype of the NA and EU MMO genre.

I’ll be making a thread when I have a bit more energy today, probably titled “NW is a great template for mainly a PvP experience” which I will also include why it should be an accepted pill to swallow for PvE likers.

You dismiss a successful game because of your feelings. Already your argument shows holes.

Final Fantasy is successful. You can talk all you want about it’s design. It still is what it is.

You have the wall known as Amazon themselves who proved that full PvP does not work. What evidence exactly can you bring to the table that argues against that?

What working proof, not theory, proof do you have that Amazon is wrong?

It’s actually kind of shocking how selfish people are. Virtually every post comes down to “my build needs buffs” or “everyone else’s builds are broken”

Has NW satisfied the PvE or PvP crowd at its current level cap and could both audiences say honestly that it will last the course of a year?

Without banking on hope, the current state of the game, imagining if it was bug free.

You need to first prove to me that Amazon are right @Synrec

It doesn’t matter what question you put forward.

As I said, they tried it.

They have real working evidence AGAINST PvP.

You need real working evidence for it.

So if I’m to understand correctly.

They tested open PvP, just simply flagged for PvP? Is that it?

Did it involve a PK system ie punishment system? (points accumlated for murders), did it have a jury system? Territory activation system?

Were there, any systems in place to punish murder?

Dude, I already told you.

Your questions don’t matter at this point. I’m not going this hard against you out of spite but it is what it is. It’s real proof that Amazon has tried full loot PvP and it failed.

You need evidence, proof that it works.

No question you ask is going to change that.

That’s just how this works.

Full loot PvP is an extreme system and that system needs to be properly designed to accomodate it, I don’t even think UO properly incorperated it, I played UO quite extensively and would have to think about that a fair bit.

Well thanks for being stubborn toward that discussion, so…

So far I’m to believe, unequivocally, that Amazon have exhausted all measures when it comes to PvP. Ok then :grin:

To the scaling comments, they also changed scaling again when the game lauched, in favour of skill over levels. No one is complaining about scaling any more and the reason is because they got it pretty good right now.

OW PVP doesn’t fail because of level imbalance or scaling or anything like that. OW PVP “fails” or at least has no lasting appeal if it has no structure to it, a purpose with rewards and impacts. In terms of that, NW has done a pretty great job actually (anyone taking part in OW PVP to push for conflict in a territory can perhaps agree with that to some degree).

Where it’s not particularly done so well is general OW PVP (the type that very few MMORPGs do particularly well). That is, make it generally fun to do most of the time when it’s optional. Looks to me as though the devs are looking into that exact issue so more ideas are welcome of course but I’m unsure NW has “failed” in this regard. It’s not that simple and, actually, NW has done a pretty good job of giving PVP a purpose. Just needs work.

Damn it, why noone told me that earlier?! I have been enjoying mmo pvp for years now and now i am seeing how blind i have been! It all sucks!

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Put forward your evidence to the contrary.

This is not being stubborn, this is simply a case where you need evidence/working proof.

Keep in mind that is is merely the first wall

The first wall!?

I’m just imagining PvE only players as one big hulking tortoise shell right now :stuck_out_tongue:

PvP is working for now but when they release more gear sets? The number disparity is going to get larger which means a bigger gate before more players can become involved in it.

When that happens, people who look for a game to PvP in are going to take one look at New World or any other mmorpg, crunch their face and just play a sports game/fps instead. Even tho those games have stupid low content.

This point is statistically proven.

just play a sports game/fps instead. Even tho those games have stupid low content

Woah now hold the phone.

Why do those games need bussling amounts of content if they work!?

You’re basically saying Sports are crap AND

You’re not knocking my Halo 2 and the age when Call of Duty was an up and coming Titan are you!? My goodness!

They don’t need content, that’s my point. This is why PvPers flock to those games instead of mmorpgs.

Asking FPS players themselves or even casual gamers, the reason they give is that the time investment isn’t worth it when you can get it now.

It’s simply a matter of convenience.

Note: All of this has been tried, tested and proven.