Rapier is a garbage primary weapon

  • one of the lowest damage growth for Dex / Int of any weapon in game

  • Most intelligence perks do nothing for Rapier except for Crit damage and purchasing deep for increased DOT damage (if you decide to take Tondo)

  • Attack animation (middle swipes) lock you out from dodging / parrying which leads to taking unnecessary damage. I don’t think other weapons have this animation lock

  • Attack animation from start to finish is quite slow for such a nimble weapon. Tracking either strafing or moving enemies is difficult.

  • Beginning a new attack animation after final thrust in the attack sequence is unnecessarily long and drawn out

  • The weapon has no inbuilt slows or roots to actually maintain melee range on moving targets

  • Tondo roots you in place and leaves you vulnerable during animation

  • Pretty bad damage even with 3 stacks compared to some other dots

  • The 1m window talent to deal extra damage in fast paced combat - especially in PvP, is near next to impossible to secure

  • Flourish and Finish is the only ability in the game that relies on a separate ability to do it’s damage

  • Consuming Tondo bleeds with Finish sucks and isnt fun. It’s a pain to build stacks on a moving target to begin with. It’s also a necessity to Tondo a fourth time to ensure the maximum stacks/duration is available to do the most damage with finish

  • Way too much setup

  • Flurry is easily dodged over 5 strikes and the damage is quite low

  • Fleche interruption talent is difficult enough to land with desync and lag issues and seems quite lackluster for 15% extra weapon damage

  • What’s the point of 80% CD on killing targets with it? So you can fleche through rabbits to move around map faster? :joy:

Whole weapon needs an overhaul. People only take it for two abilities to synergise with other weapons.

It’s never " oh he riposted me, got behind and did massive damage. Maybe I should watch out for the obvious visual and sound cues for 1 second, and the off chance I accidentally lmb into it I’ll dodge the stun anyway"

It’s always “the healer got away. Me sad. Chasing sucks”

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is this about pvp? because in pve against corrupted i can tell you its s+ tier dps

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Even after using it today I’ve had the same messages I’ve always got, since launch

“What was that skill”
“What setup is that”
"I’ve never seen that before"

It’s extremely telling when the majority of people, even now, this far into the game, still have no idea about rapier’s other tree. It’s just bewildering how long its been left in this state.

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It’s a lot easier to set up DPS on mostly stationary PvE targets who are locked on to the tank for constant backstabs and bleed applications. Having CD reduction for F+F when 10 targets have 3x Tondo bleeds is obviously going to do a lot of damage.

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Riposte trigger from ranged attack / projectile / life staff light attack. If you don’t see any problem with riposte and want also Blood tree buffed, you living on Copium my friend. Edit : I agree that blood tree need some helps / reworks BUT rapier user need to admit that riposte and evade are way too easy / strong , this is WHY no1 use other tree. Riposte and flèche are the BEST 2 Defenfsivr skill of the game ( ok maybe entomb but even then I think it’s weaker )

I’ve been saying they need to buff the Rapier offensive side and nerf the defensive side.

Most people tote the Rapier around for two abilities for defense, and never use it as a offensive weapon or any other abilities. As a crutch weapon to escape damage.

3 Likes

I particularly like the Rapier a lot for PvP as a primary weapon of course. And in 20-40% of the times I enter a 3v3 Match, my team questions my build, of course in a positive way, because a lot of people still don’t understand how the Build DPS works and they are open-mouthed when they see Tondo’s combo with o Flourish and Finish.

But, I understand the point of view about irrelevant weapon perks, there’s still a lot of that in the game. I hope all weapons at a certain point take Rework.

I feel like this topic pops up once a month like clockwork lol.

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I agree with you, the DPS ability of it is actually fantastic in PVP but not ideal for wars.

It can 1v1 anyone and has good dps/chase in 3v3s

It’s just abysmal in wars for dps and that feels like how people quantify the value of a weapon these days. It doesn’t synergize well with bruiser dps because it’ll do fast and rapid low dps that will break combos which is where a lot of kill potential comes from.

It’s PVE Dps is pretty cracked. It’s a shame more people don’t play it for dps when it can be viable in a lot of situations. It’s just a cheesy get out of jail free card to most people in pvp.

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And like clockwork; AGS completely ignores it.

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Seen one guy using it as primary in 3s pretty annoying to deal with him as a healer worst guy to fight

I am playing trickster builds (rapier with ig/fs/vg). If I go 150/100 dex I am using rapier as a primary and if I am using lets say tondo+FF with evade/riposte most of the time I feel like I am griefing. It is very hard to deal consistent damage with that set up and if you go full dex you will be better of with a spear anyway. Tondo is just cheeks.

Point is that Evade and Riposte needs to be nerfed and blood tree needs to be redesigned or at the very least buffed. This skill tree is outdated and doesnt have any standing in the current meta unless you’re really really really good and your opponents have 0 idea how rapier works.

Purely pvp talk btw.

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Grace Tree. Rogue + Keenly empowered does huge damage on backstabs.

Rapier is not a primary weapon. Its a secondary. Best for range players.

iv been saying for almost half this year lol.

still waiting.

naw man lets not peg weapons into subclasses like that.

I mean its kind of true…

its only true because of how weak the offensive side is.

and its funny because there are people that can make it work and it ALWAYS surprises enemies when they use it to finish people. and thats just with mostly grace stuff.

the blood tree has the “potential” for a shit ton of damage but its almost impossible to pull off properly.

the rapier is a primary weapon because it is a weapon. a main release weapon. dont go calling it a secondary just because everyone does it.

I’ve seen rapier players heavy attack for half hp light players
I’ve seen rapier players shred through tanks in seconds (not a great feat though since every weapon can do that)
I’ve seen rapier players dance around 4+ enemy players and aoe stun them and take 2 of them down before they ran away
I’ve seen rapier players being chased around by multiple people for minutes, true story
I’ve seen rapier players doing more dps in dungeons than most of the other weapons
I’ve seen rapier players survive dungeon mechanics that are impossible to survive by any other build
I’ve seen rapier paired up with almost every weapon, you name it

The only reasons rapier feels like a bad primary weapon is because it has a hard time dealing with range builds and it’s not that common in wars

and its mostly still the grace tree that lets it do 90% of that.

that doesnt change the fact that blood tree is garbagio.

and besides i don’t expect rapiers to do well against range. it should still be good in melee v melee and while it can be in the right hands it utilizes almost no part of blood tree which is some terrible terrible internal balance.

while we are at it so is the majority of the trapper side of musket.

All possible but very rare.

In general, the rapier is best served as a secondary for something like bow, musket, FS etc.

Of course there are players and builds that are exceptions but generally the rapier is better used and mostly used as a secondary weapon.

i guess a better question is should any weapon be considered a secondary?

is it fair to those that invest heavily into it.?

1 Like