Real feedback about the musket and some ideas I got to improve its state

Again, these are muskets in name only. The fact that the ammunition is a cartridge stipulate that explicitly in that there’s a casing, powder, primer and bullet all together in one object. Perhaps the developers intended the musket nomenclature to indicate smoothbore? I don’t know, but lore choices aside, they aren’t muskets in anything but name. They don’t even reload like a traditional musket. They load as if they had some type of loading gate where the wheel would normally be on a traditional wheel lock.

Even at 1 or 1.5 seconds for reload, they would still differ from the bow in that the musket wouldn’t have a charge mechanic. To get bonus damage on the bow, you need only hold your fire for a bit, then hit the mob anywhere. Bonus on top if you whack it in the head. The musket would still need to hit head shots to get the bonus damage. Regardless, perhaps you’re right. But the root in place mechanics on the musket gotta go.

Apparently 3 seconds reload rate is not considered to be slow even for a modern bolt action rifle. Unless you are sacrificing accuracy to put as many leads down the range as you can, 4 to 6 seconds between shoots isn’t too unreasonable. So my point is that our muskets shoot pretty darn fast. In fact, it’s just that bows shoot unrealistically fast. Also if bows can fire on the move, there is no reason muskets shouldn’t either.

You’re right, the in game musket shoots pretty darn fast. But so does the in game bow by comparison. Outside of a fantasy setting or some fancy trick shooting, nobody goes around just flinging arrows every second. We’re not talking about keeping things realistic here. We’re talking about making the weapon competitive within the game setting.

I don’t think slowing the firing rates on the bow is a great idea either. I understand that’s not what you’re saying here, but 4-6 seconds between shots would be the death of the musket (and musketeer) in the game. Time to kill using other weapons is just that fast. Just putting that out there as a fact, not a judgement or critique on the game. There are likely other threads for that.

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No I am not suggesting that. Just saying that if bow users can move and reload at the same time, there is no reason that musket users can’t do the same. Staying still to reload can be quite devastating to musket players in combat.

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It depends,

It doesn’t really depend at all. Historically, muskets were fairly accurate to about 300m. By modern standards, their accuracy was trash. Hitting a 50cm group at 100m is what I expect from a hastily constructed rifled zipgun these days, not even taking into account 3D printing and the like.

The muskets in the game are a rough approximation of a concept the devs wanted to give the players to use. They’re apparently a rifled, breach or gate loaded early approximation of what our ancestors used to refer to as a musket.

All that fluff aside, it doesn’t matter what they are or should be. As a game weapon right now, they’re bottom tier outside of some very niche applications.

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I’ve gotten musket to rank 15 now, so I’ve got a decent amount of points under my belt. I don’t pvp and never will, so this is strictly from a pve perspective –

Currently, it feels as though the damage of the musket is balanced against getting constant headshots, so if you can’t reliably hit a headshot the damage feels extremely low. If I were in charge of a “skill rework” I’d re-balance the numbers against generic hits and make headshots give a massive bonus. This would mean that players would strive for headshots, but they wouldn’t be penalized for not hitting them at least 75% of the time. With the hours of practice I’ve had in order to grind the musket to 15 I’ve gotten to where I can hit a headshot about 50% of the time on a mob charging directly at me where the side-to-side bobbing of the head due to the running animation isn’t bad, but on a dodging mob or one running at an oblique angle? Fuhgeddaboudit! So… yeah… headshots should be a happy bonus, not a core mechanic.

The 3x zoom should be standard on aiming, not an 11-point investment requiring an ultimate skill.

If I shoot someone in the back and it’s not a headshot, it should still be a guaranteed crit like all the other weapons. Just no headshot bonus damage on it, of course.

Ammo also needs to be removed from the game. I know it’s not realistic, but if I have infinite ammo on an Ice Gauntlet, Fire Staff, or Life Staff while doing more damage and able to AoE grind out their levels, then I should at least be able to always fire my gun (or bow) without having to carry stacks and stacks of heavy ammo and/or recall back to town to make more or pick up more from my storage for the low damage of the gun that I am grinding out more becuz I want to like it, than becuz I actually do. Yes, I’m a glutton for punishment, it seems. . . .

Reload speed is super fast from a realism standpoint, but super-slow from a game standpoint, especially given how low the damage of a non-headshot feels. The animation lock on the charged shot skill reloads seems really silly too. If we can reload on the move normally, then the skill shots should allow movement also.

As the OP noted, you want to open with Powder Burn, so the Power Shot feels redundant at best. The only time I use Power Shot is if there are 2 linked mobs where I know the Powder Burn DoT will kill the 1st one, so I’ll hit that, then load the Power Shot to try to get a quick headshot on the 2nd mob before it “breaks surprise” and starts charging. That will usually take it below half, and if I can get a 2nd headshot on it that will usually take it down before it can get too close, though if I miss or just get a regular hit then I’ll usually have to toss down a trap to keep the mob held long enough to try for another shot (seriously, the mobs in this game are FAST…) or just swap to my 2nd weapon and block its attack before getting the finishing blow(s) off that way.

Vs the typical no/light armored mobs the musket seems to work pretty well if you can get consistent headshots but that’s it (and that headshot caveat is why the musket is not well regarded – headshots are too hard to hit for them to be the core damage mechanic). Vs heavy armored mobs that carry shields the musket seems pretty useless as it can’t shoot fast enough to break the shield bar before the mob’s on you, so you have to pick your battles carefully. The other weapons all seem to be good at dealing with multiple mobs, but killing more than 2 at a time with the musket seems dicey at best, making it that much more of a grind to level it up.

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could drastically reduce the weight of ammo thus allowing you to carry many more ammo packs

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@pkudude99

I agree with most of your point explicitly. I’ve only used the weapon in PvE but from all accounts, outside of a dueling situation, the weapon in PvP is simply another statistic for the losers to mourn over.

As for the removal of ammo, I’m a bit torn. On the one hand, it allows limited scaling of existing ranged weapons over and above base weapon stats without the need to overburden crafting and itemization with needless attachments and add ons. Second, it adds a relatively simple crafting pattern to spam the engineering skill, especially for players looking to specialize in a ranged/engineering style of play.

On the other hand, the existence of ammo lends itself to the idea that the physical ranged weapons are suboptimal to any of the magical equivalents. And to a certain extent, that’s not incorrect.

One way to handle this would be to dramatically drop the weight of ammo and/or drastically increase the stack size. Alternatively, the could simply increase the materials requirement for crafting ammo and make the ammo slot into an equipment slot. It could perhaps even suffer equipment wear and damage over time to simulate “running out”. It could also provide an avenue through which elemental and/or affliction ammo types could be applied without having to slot a gem, giving physical ranged weapons a bit more nuance and versatility.

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I think for the damage scaling for “no ammo” they could just make it so the tiers get a damage bump as though they’re using the ammo as it currently is – iron weapon is 1.0, steel is 1.1, etc.

FWIW, I don’t think the game can increment a weight lower than 0.1 lbs for an item, so a stack of 500 ammo is gonna weigh 50 lbs as a floor and they simply can’t get that any lower. And this is a big part of why ammo needs to be removed. Leave the crafting recipe in for crafters to grind on, but change the name (“Generic Engineering Grinding Recipe” or somesuch) and make it salvageable so it can be done a few more times…

I like your idea of an ammo pouch equipment slot that would take item damage (thus simulating running out of ammo, but can be repaired just like a magic item takes damage and eventually needs repair also) that could also have added elemental or debuff effects added to it independently from the weapon.

Headshots really need to be a lot more powerfull. Even with hs if you shot a heavy armored player your damage is still lackluster. 1.3x damage needs to go at minimum to 2.0x

Correct, I would change the x3 to a x4 (standard on aiming). With the sniper tree probably upgrade to a x6 (x8 would be too much).

Hell if they do those 2 changes and need to nerf anything, quit the hitscan mechanic and change it to a very fast projectile instead, like 3-4 times faster than the arrow. In BF for example sniper rifles are not hitscan but some of them travel so fast you wouldnt notice at 200m.

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As a musket player with about 300 hours put towards min-maxing the glasscannon build - coming over from Apex legends (highest rank: Apex Predator [which is the top 0.01% of the playerbase and the highest rank in that fast-paced shooter) I definitely agree with the fact that musket headshots MUST be rewarding and its base damage SHOULD be increased against medium and heavy armor by either reworking the perk to support this.

Some players have thousands of hours in Aiming / Tracking and practice. Even if an extremely skilled FPS player can land about 5/5 headshots vs a heavy player, that heavy armored player will not die (I’ve done some tests at level 60 using Clamorous Vox at 570 GS musket weapon) The damage is simply NOT enough

Making headshots MUCH better than just a base 130% bonus damage to upto possibly 200-250% bonus damage is a good trade-off from the fact that no player is always 100% accurate towards moving targets - specially if they are not either afk or moving in a straight line.

Even shroud will not be able to land 5/5 headshots in a row with a musket - even though he has the skill to land 5/5 body shots with utmost consistency or with his h/s ratio around 3 shots of his 5 shots to be headshots. But then again, that’s Mike - not everyone is as good as him so we have to consider consistency over relying on “chance” in most fights. Which is why passives need to be reworked to favor “consistency” instead of relying on pure luck of the draw to get that unsatisfying unimpactful 130% bonus damage headshot that won’t make too much of a difference in an MMO like new world.

if you get hit with a head-shot in about any game that has shooter-elements in it may it be Third-person or First-person you will UTMOST DEFINITELY either die or get damaged enough to “feel” afraid and do whatever you can to avoid getting your head blown up the second time around. Because landing headshots on players that know how to time their dodges before you shoot is a HUGE risk with very little reward if you do land it as of the time being.

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I come from a russian MMOFPS, in that game the sniper rifle kills you with one hit at the body unless you play the tanky class, maybe op? Nope, assault rifle kills you in one hit at body if you play sniper and can 2 shot the tankiest class.

Obviously I dont want that here but hs need a HUGE buff if the devs want that type of playstyle.
I was in war like 2 days ago and I needed 5 shots to kill a glass cannon mage when they can drop me with 2 heavys or 1 heavy + fireball.

Im even ok if they remove the hitscan for the musket and buff the hs damage to like 200% minimum (they would need to buff the bow too or the musket would be superior in every range tho).

Been following this for a bit as I LOVE using the musket, been wanting to make it somewhat viable with different kinds of setups (mind you didn’t play all the betas) but even in wars, its like so sub par that im losing hope in it. Most ive seen was a 2.6k headshot crit on a light user and thats like…nothing in the grand scheme of things. Most of the time its just pick someone off thats already low or hit that person on siege as they get off, get a heal and get back on. I’d love to see something change and lots of good ideas here…but no one from amazon has recognized it unlike its counter part the bow. Hope they do something to bring this into light cause even in PvE I dont care to use it much anymore, especially in open world stuff as being immobile is troublesome. Literally use it for niche boss fights and then back to my backpack it goes. Bumping to keep this thread alive as I said before, hoping to get some insight/possible changes moved for the weapon.

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Post nº 12 from 4 days ago, at least a community moderator from amazon passed it to the devs :slight_smile:

I hope they remove the bugged hitscan if needed to make a huge damage buff with very fast projectiles instead.

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Holy snap-zilla how did I miss that. lol now I feel a bit silly. Try to spend more time in-game but like tonight after a war I just had to see if it was still active. :smiley:

I know people complain about hitscan mechanics and musket being extremely long ranged. Some people even complaining about being sniped from 200m away. It’s all just bull. You cannot even make a shot that far in this game. Targets aren’t even displayed at that distance. I am actually wondering if people are confusing meters with feet. 100 meters = 328ft. Nominal shooting range(different from max effective range of 300 yards) of a smoothbore musket is about 100 yards which is equivalent to around 90 m. Within this distance, there isn’t much bullet drop to worry about. You just aim and shoot. And projectiles fired from muskets had muzzle velocity ranging between 350 m/s to 500 m/s which would allow them travel nearly instantaneously within this range. So even if they remove the hitscan mechanics and replace it with a more realistic projectile based mechanics there won’t be much difference.
The average shooting distance of players is just too short to make any changes noticeable.

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have you done the lvl 55 dungeon?
Did you notice that mobs have much better animations and skills than players, even musket?

I wanted to add one thing:

While aiming we should be able to get name/faction/level/PvP tags of players we get our cursor on ASAP! I’ve literally been tracking a player for almost 20 seconds and nothing appeared before I was so close he could spot me easily.

I agree with a lot of what you said.
I simply think that all muskets minimum should come with a 2.0x damage multiplier for criticals, and a 0% critical chance.
That way, you get 200% damage per headshot as a minimum, and you don’t get the random af criticals from body shots.
This makes it a more rewarding skill weapon.

Further to that, greater tier weapons should give greater critical damage multipliers.

I also think the overloaded shot should become a “gunpowder” shot which explodes on impact creating a small AoE attack making it more viable all round.

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