Real reason why game is dying, and is not bugs or lag

Ofc, from the groundwork of NW it was never meant to be a rich PvE game with questing, lore, story and the like, it was clearly designed as an action mmo where you are competing with players in some fashion (and like all mmo’s that focus on competiton, mainly ones made in korea, there is some grindy PvE content, even some dungeons).

Whatever your thoughts on the PvE side of this game, you can’t deny it’s a rushed and desperate attempt, the most desperate addition that to it which gives the illusion that it’s PvE focused affair is by forcing a mainly PvP focused game on an optional flag system so that people who are mainly PvE focused are more inclined to give it a try and here we are :wink:

Not only do I know my history, I lived that history. I was Anjeel of Fallen Lord’s on the Pacific Shard for UO. We were one of the most notorious red (murderer/permanent pvp) guilds in OSI history. We traveled across servers specifically for pvp.

I was Anvirage Hammerfist on Shadowbane and played strictly pvp.

I was Anjeel, Disciple of Khaine, for WAR. I led multiple warbands in T4 pvp, fortresses, and held keeps against 100+ people.

I was Anjeel/Orram/Calenn in Rift. Led open world pvp including videos (not the greatest), organized pvp tournaments, was one of the main commanders in instanced pvp when it was still hugely contested.

Edit to add - Next time you want to say someone doesn’t know their history, maybe cite examples rather than looking silly

It doesn’t have to have any good PvP to be an MMO, WoW didn’t have any organised PvP at launch and yet people still flocked to it. Whether you look at FF14 as an MMO or not, is irrelevant, it’s still an MMORPG.

The simple fact of the matter is; PvE is what makes the MMORPG genre tick. The full on PvP loot MMORPG or even only full PvP MMORPG, is such a niche market that no developer bother getting into developing it. There is a reason they have a heavy focus on PvE in their game design.

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Ofc most of those players wouldn’t consider themselves PvP because they can’t commit long enough to vs their rather crummy GS/Enchanting requirements.

Although I’m betting you a lot of them would love to PvP if they had the opportunity.

I played loads of BDO/Archeage/Lineage 2, those games at launch I assure you everyone was having fun. When I was behind on Archeage unchained recently when joining a friend who didn’t stop, I wouldn’t consider myself PvP ready yet because of all the shit I have to go through to do it.

These games aren’t low in numbers because they are PvP based, they are low in numbers due to the shitty requirement efforts, a lot of those PvP titan mmo’s come from Korea and that young population works differently than us but those games are never slightly altered to accomodate for the west, that is the biggest issue, NOT the pvp.

NO they are low numbers because PVP’s are a massive minority of the player base. As a former PVPer in UO, SWG, ESO I know this fact first hand. The fact is over the years the PVP community has become more toxic, more arrogant, and more likely to exploit which is why I quit doing PVP. It is just not worth the time of being accused of hacking or exploiting when you win, or being teabagged and insulted with “git gud” when you lose, and even the best PVPers lose time to time if not exploiting.


I can’t think of one korean mmo that is full loot on drop or full on PvP, yet you’re telling me this like you know it?

Absolutely outrageous but something I expect of someone who appears to have little experience outside of western markets and only commenst on “PvP only” mmo’s (xD) just from casual browsing through comment threads or reddit discussions on it.

I’ve already explained the reason why WoW and FF14 are surviving, I won’t say it again.

“Gotta love that person who says they’ve been teabagged, after they probably had good fights, then 1/50 times that happens to them then suddenly that’s all they focus on”.

The meaning of a game “dying” is not only how many players it loses or keeps. What is often forgotten in a discussion like this is that a game mmo or otherwise needs to be financially viable to keep going.

So even if you debate that NW will not die how many players, active players investing in the shop does it need?

NW is not a cheap game to produce, yes they most definitely made a profit or at least recouped development costs with it’s initial success. Me personally I have a very hard time seeing how it can keep being profitable at this rate without a subscription cost or any real plan for the future.

Yes you can find niche games that manage to survive that are full on hardcore PvP games, but as I’ve said, it’s such a niche market that most developers don’t bother going that way. The MMORPG market isn’t that big to begin with so most MMORPGs opt in for a hybrid model like New World is having, just to get a big enough market for their investment.


You know that sales numbers do not represent how “good” a game is, because that is very subjective from player to player, but it shows what is popular and sells well? Yes? Good.

Now what do you thing a economically interested want to produce: a product that is “good” to some, or “good enough” to have a high as possible popularity and would sell more because it meats more poeples interrests in that specific game/genre?

I let you figure that one out.

Maybe try to do your own research if you’re willing to defend a point no matter what, right now you’re just assuming what the person is saying is 1:1 accurate and being overly defensive towards any arguments people make with their own opinion/data.

Goodluck man

PVP players prefer to play real PVP games like Apex CSGO Valorant Dota 2 LOL Overwatch etc. no one care about PVP in MMO you can see that in any server only 10% of players are flagged. yes this game is very balance there is outpost rush there is wars there is a lot PVP. still PVE is the reason why its popular and why people playing it. this game need more PVE content that anything else.

Everygame you described are mainly played by people under 23.

“No one cares about PvP mmo”, look in the forum, you’ll find at least 33% over do.

And PvPer’s are mainly not ones for wasting their time talking on here btw!

you want PVP for age 23 and older ok
Chivalry 2 the player base are 30 and older.
i look at the forum same people same names keep asking for nonsense
NW is balanced between PVP and PVE you can do both you can do one.
in the game itself 90% of people are not interested in PVP you can see that most level 60 are not flagged.
all big MMO games from 20 years ago until this day are PVE games. you know why? bc people want to relax after work, or after playing real PVP game they want to relax and play MMO game they are not interested in fighting other players. most of these people in the forum who ask for more PVP or to force PVP in other players are CoD players they will go back to their main game in few months.

NW is balanced between PVP and PVE you can do both you can do one.

…And that failed experiment is a sinking ship.

The 20 years PvE mmo arguement, jesus not again, born yesterday.

Look let me tell you something, and @Arrclyde because he’s right up there in my groin.

A game can carry on being successful and a failure at the same time, think of it literally as a zombie. The age of WoW, league of legends and the like died a long time ago, all that remains now is their ghoulish presence, their monopoly over the games space. The only reason they are still played by a certain demographic is because they don’t have anything else, that is it, we’re living in a world where competition barely exists because invester’s don’t care about quality, they care about monopolies and they don’t give one cent about the dedicated player anymore and what could make a legendary experience that would be talked about fondly by so many people. Why do you think so many people are “toxic”? they’re frustrated as hell, it’s not because they’re some kind of monsters with a bad upbringing.

The effort and commitment by Ashe’s of Creation and its lead is absolutely breathtaking, it’s a miracle, if that game incorperates everything that players want the “big boy mmo’s” you keep referencing will fall or try to adapt for their lives.

Ofc you can go on a reddit site and spew the meta phrase “the only thing that can kill WoW is itself”, that ofc automatically makes you look clever.

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its true all PVP mmo games are failed.
all big mmo right now are PVE. bc no one cares about PVP in mmo bc its very casual like you want to race with Toyota corolla. but you can race with a Ferrari real race car why you keep asking Toyota to give Corolla 6 speed gearbox? no point of that when there is Nissan Skyline available for racing. that Corolla is MMO PVP mode. no one want to use that Corolla for racing. When you have real PVP games very well done games only for PVP why you keep ignoring them and going to that Corolla again??

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Those ghoulish presences have more active players than all those other PvP oruented mmorpgs combined.

Just because you don’t like certain things does NPT mean nobody does. And just because they enjoy something that don’t thing is worth a damn doesn’t make them any less viable.

If you are playing MMORPGs purely for PvP you are a soon to be extict dinosaur of the long gone UO aera. PvP only players are such a small minority in todays MMORPG landscape that they actually are way to small to even matter.

How do the kids today say: suck it up buttercup. Evolve or move on.


Think I’ve struck too much of a nerve with the Player versus AI repitition playerbase now :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh and ashes of creation will soon prove it can deliver what it promises. I hope so, so that those “pvp is king masterrace” players have a game they can brag about how supperior the playstyle is.

And i would like to see them prove the long livity of that concept. Maybe that is the one that lasts.