Looks like this has been suggested since November 2021 but it bears repeating especially with the new mechanics tying fortify to armor rating.
The problem:
Shields are weapons but they add to armor weight, this means that sword + shield users cannot use the same armor combinations that other weapons do and the armor added by shields does not make up the difference. With the exception of heavy armor, Sword+Shield has less armor than any other weapon playing in the same armor class while holding their shield, and much less while using the other weapon.
The simplest mix+match is to add chest armor one class up, which does not raise your armor class. SNS users cannot do this - in a light loadout with a round shield S&S cannot equip ANY medium pieces, while in a medium loadout S&S users may only equip a heavy helm, glove or boot. There are other combinations as well but just to keep it simple I’m going to focus on replacing chest armor.
To quantify the difference in armor ratings:
625 Round Shield: 31.2
625 Kite Shield: 62.3
625 Tower Shield: 124.6
625 Light Chest: 209.8
625 Medium Chest: 372.4 (+162.6 over light)
625 Heavy Chest: 660.6 (+288.2 over medium)
Light armor with medium chest has 762 armor = 25.17% mitigation
Light armor with round shield has 630 armor = 21.78% mitigation
Light armor with shield on back has 599 armor = 20.93% mitigation
Medium armor with heavy chest has 1352 armor = 37.38% mitigation
Medium armor with heavy helm/glove/boot and round shield has 1218 armor = 34.98% mitigation
Medium armor with heavy helm/glove/boot and shield on back has 1187 armor = 34.40% mitigation
Suggested solutions:
Round shields should have zero armor weight and zero armor rating. This lets sword players in PvP and PvE play the same armor sets as other weapons would, with the same armor rating benefits of matching. The shield keeps its identity by being pretty good at blocking.
Kite shields should pretty much not exist. Nobody uses them because they’re in an awkward place of being too heavy for damage dealers but being too poor at blocking for tanks. You cannot achieve a light loadout with a kite shield, nor equip any heavy pieces in a medium loadout. They should probably just be removed from the game and their unique perks distributed to round or tower shields as appropriate. Is there any reason both other types of shield shouldn’t have refreshing move or lifestealing?
Tower shields at their current weight almost always make a player heavy (you can wear all light with a medium hat/glove/boot and weigh in at medium, but that would be stupid). This is fine, but they still need a bump in armor rating to make equipping a shield worthwhile. Currently, equipping a tower shield only results in 2.8% additional damage mitigation. The armor rating should be increased to make tower shields worth equipping. Or maybe you can slap something fun like Resilient on tower shields, that might actually get them back into play.
Its a fair balance to lose 200-300 armor rating (light-med) in exchange for 3 extra perks and 1 extra stat point not available to any weapon class. Not to mention, the block mechanic allows you to play more safe than any other class because you can block quite literally everything. No one beats a good sns player in a duel.
if anything Heavy SNS is ridiculously over powered. You can go more than heavy armor rating default for other weapons while keeping double perks (sword + shield = 6 perks).
Sure you don’t have mobility as much, but a 10% damage you lose for heavy armor can be easily overwritten by a mere enchanted or keenly empowered on either sword and shield.
Anyone who doesn’t agree on above^ is just sleeping on it.
how? You go full heavy and equip a tower shield and you get 240 armor rating from phys and ele combined. If anything you have more armor rating.
It’s not fair because sword has low base damage and crit multiplier with no skill tree option to increase it. Apples to oranges until such time as the devs normalize crit damage and DPS.
And you completely ignored the disadvantage posed while holding the other weapon. Sword has gotten the short end of the stick since release. No other weapon combination has to contend with that.
if anything Heavy SNS is ridiculously over powered.
Ah yeah that’s why OPR is full of them… oh they get no score and therefore no rewards. Or point tanks… no, replaced by IG/VG. Surely arenas… nope that’s spear/bow’s playground. I guess it’s so OP nobody can play it anywhere?
how? You go full heavy and equip a tower shield and you get 240 armor rating from phys and ele combined. If anything you have more armor rating.
That’s not how armor rating works and also I posted the armor values of 625 shields in my OP. Go ahead and plug heavy vs heavy with a shield into any damage mitigation calculator, it.s 2.8%.
ho get 1.3 crit damage which is same as half of the dex weapons.
you get 3% crit chance which is 1% less than fs, but you get this
What is wrong with you?
Not sure if you’re aware, but holding other weapon keeps your stats and you lose the armor from shield.
No weapon is as powerful as sword and shield
It works as an assassin, a tank, a bruiser and you never lose 1v1’s. What more do you want?
you get more armor here and get 3 extra perks.
If you wanna go light or med, you still get 3 extra perks and 1 stat point from shield compared to other weapon combos for the cost of ~200 armor rating
Before I say anything I want to say, I play sns/spear or gs
It’s a very fair trade to have to wear all light armor to get a total of 6 perks on one weapon. Not to mention attributes. I would say to make it fair after removing the weight you would need to take the perks. I myself choose the perks
Kite Shield needs to be rebalanced. The perk pool and weight are so awkward. Maybe drop the weight and armor rating of Round Shields to zero, then drop the weight of Kite Shield to 2.7 and Tower Shields to 5.4.
Oh, and standardize the Tower Shield block stability. A lot of them have only 40% for some reason. They should all be 50%.
While we’re at it, let’s revise the Kite Shield perk pool. Right now, there’s so few perks worth getting on it. Add Trenchant Rend, Trenchant Crits, Trenchant Strikes, Trenchant Recovery, Ele Aversion, Phys Aversion to the pool.
ho get 1.3 crit damage which is same as half of the dex weapons.
you get 3% crit chance which is 1% less than fs, but you get this
Are you being intentionally obtuse? Crit chance is not the same thing as crit damage. Crit chance is extremely weak because backstab and crit forgiveness are things.
Not sure if you’re aware, but holding other weapon keeps your stats and you lose the armor from shield.
Thanks, that’s what I said. If you’re not holding the shield you have even less armor. This is highly relevant now that fortify is being tied to armor rating.
No weapon is as powerful as sword and shield
It works as an assassin, a tank, a bruiser and you never lose 1v1’s. What more do you want?
It doesn’t do all of that at once and all of those roles are going to take a huge hit next patch with the fortify changes.
seems like a you problem, sorry
Cool you ran out of arguments and resorted to personal attacks.
you get more armor here and get 3 extra perks.
If you wanna go light or med, you still get 3 extra perks and 1 stat point from shield compared to other weapon combos for the cost of ~200 armor rating
Thanks for proving my point I guess? You got… wow 117 more armor rating. That’s actually less than the shield says, or yours is only 600GS. Either way…
Now, take those numbers over to a damage calc. Plug them in and notice it works out to only 2.8% less damage taken. This is because the armor formula has diminishing returns. So amazing that a “tank” takes 2.8% less damage than a heavy bruiser.
But, because they are contending with lesser armor values, light or medium sword users receive much more damage compared to other builds. And this is going to be amplified by the changes to fortification next patch.
Please try to understand how damage mitigation works before coming to post here.
Please refrain from personal insults, especially when you’re just wrong.
full heavy with tower shield, you swap weapon you still have same armor as any other heavy user. With shield you get more armor, not sure whats your complaint.
Thats you, not me. If you can’t hack with SNS, idk what to tell you.
Please try to understand the 3 perk and 1 stat point system and its advantage over a measly 200 armor rating, then talk here.
kthnxbai
Continuing to post a pic that says “critical strike chance”. Please stop being obtuse, especially when you’re wrong.
full heavy with tower shield, you swap weapon you still have same armor as any other heavy user. With shield you get more armor, not sure whats your complaint.
Thanks for not reading, again. Light and medium sword users have less armor with shield in hand, and much less while using the other weapon.
Please try to understand the 3 perk and 1 stat point system and its advantage over a measly 200 armor rating, then talk here.
kthnxbai
Again, it seems like you’re being intentionally obtuse and ignoring light and medium builds.
Light armor with heavy chest has 762 armor = 25.17% mitigation
Light armor with round shield has 630 armor = 21.78% mitigation
Light armor with shield on back has 599 armor = 20.93% mitigation
Medium armor with heavy chest has 1352 armor = 37.38% mitigation
Medium armor with heavy helm/glove/boot and round shield has 1218 armor = 34.98% mitigation
Medium armor with heavy helm/glove/boot and shield on back has 1187 armor = 34.40% mitigation
ALL OF WHICH WILL BE AMPLIFIED BY THE UPCOMING CHANGES TO FORTIFICATION
So where is the ask to balance the fact that only sns gets 10% extra damage reduction towards a specific amror type but no other class will be able to?
I guess where you get stumped, you just keep reporting posts.
you can lie here and act innocent
but i got receipts
this is a craftable shield, you dont even need to farm it. Roundshields and Kiteshields have 100’s of illegal perk combinations and they have been there since forever.
tell me you dont know howto play sns without telling me
it someone can use it, idc its still useful.
you said round shields can’t have thatr perk, i replied with a contradiction.
think you’re the one grasping at straws here.
Shields, especially Kite Shield and to a lesser extent, Round Shield, and unduly penalized in their armor rating when doing Light or Medium builds. Increase the shield armor rating to compensate or lowering their weight solves the issue.
