Reforging - The most requested feature yet to be added

[aaronmsmith88]

Its impossible to miss the requests for a reforge system. The current system of craft is just playing the lotto over and over again. We get it, “Best in Slot” items should be hard to come by, should be rare, but the current system is so punishing and un-rewarding.

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@Runehako

Crafting needs a revamp. All the time and money put into leveling, obtaining the gear, trophies, food buff, and settlement for a buff just to get shafted by RNG deciding that nothing you craft will hit the 600 mark is depressing and spirit killing.
And the fact that it takes all that work and an ungodly amount of hours to not even make the best gear is even more disheartening.

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@Sonickat

Loot and Crafting is simply too random. As you add more perks the combinations grow exponentially. We’ve been complaining about how difficult it is to get the perks we want on gear since launch. You guys keep adding new perks. I like the new perks. I love a lot of them.

What I’d love more is complete control over crafting my gear exactly how I want it. It’s not fun how the random number generacte controls the vast majority of crafting and drops.

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@What do the developers think about the fact that 99.9% of the gear we get is crap?

The gear perks from drops, reward boxes, and crafting are random from a very large pool and are invariably crap. It is a totally unrewarding system.

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@backflowz

There are so many Perks in New World, that when u craft an armor part, u just need the luck OF GOD himself to actually get what u need.

Only the LUCKIEST get good stuff… and it’s just not right…it feels bad to rip urself into the game trying to make a TON of asmodeum and crafts, to create GARBAGE items…WHY?!

We need to be able to modify things and have more control over crafting

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@Noralia

Dear Amazon team and community.

isn’t it a tiresome topic to throw away 1000 Runic and various other materials for nothing? Thinking about crafting pants on Konsti makes me sick at the prices of sentry post insignia.

The chance of legendary BIS items is extremely low and not every player is a Windkreis owner and has gold for 5000 crafts in his pocket without farming for 2 years.

Isn’t it possible to reroll one’s attributes from random drops or perks from crafting through a number of materials? This introduction would regenerate the whole crafting system.

The list goes on, and on, and on.

I am hoping to spark some discussion and inspiration here for the Developers, by examining how WOW handled this same issue:

How did WoW's Reforging work?

Introduced in the Cataclysm expansion, Reforging allows undesired stats on gear to be exchanged for more useful stats. reforging is handled by NPCs known as [Arcane Reforgers] located in the major cities. The cost of reforging an item is equal to its sale value.
Stats can only be exchanged for other stats which are not already on the gear.

It has been stated that Reforging was not intended to be used routinely on all items, like [Enchanting], but to allow more classes to conceivably roll on potential upgrades, rather than being forced to [Disenchant]

The four primary [stats]—[Agility], [Intellect], [Stamina], and [Strength] - were not able to be reforged.

Possible application to New World:

• Re-forging would NOT be used to re-roll the STATS on an item (STR, DEX, INT, FOC, CON) but only PERKS.
• Could be handled by a [Kiln] similar to the Gypsum Kiln.
• Could also be handled by the crafting station.
• Could be used as an Azoth Sink.
• Cost to re-forge could be equal to its cost to craft.
  – (Example: A Heavy Chest would cost 20x Tier 5 Metals , 8x Leathers, 7x Cloth to re-forge a perk on said item).

We can already control the primary stat (Timeless) along with 1 perk. So the next step would be allowing us to re-roll the other perks on the item.

I do not know what type of system limitations you guys have on crafting. What is or isn’t possible.

Would be really nice if we got confirmation the Devs understand this is a problem. Especially with the more and more perks are coming out, this just lowers the odds of getting your desired perk options.

BAD Solutions

I have seen people propose “Just let us control/force TWO of the perks”. I think this is a bad way to go, as it would flood the market with BIS/Near BIS items almost immediately. The ability to force something like Resil + Skill Perk OR Refreshing Evasion + Skill Perk. Gear would be too common. This would ruin the economy.

However I think if a player spends Timeless + Charm. They get something that is their desired armor weight, desired primary stat, and one desired perk, but it happens to roll something they DONT want (Beast Ward anyone)? Rather than having to spend another Timeless, another Charm… Maybe they dont need to… They could merely “re-roll” that same item. Trying to build off of it.

[VengeanceAE]

I like the idea of re-rolling one or 2 perks on an item. Not sure about the best method of implementation. Can you only re-roll a perk once, or more than once. If you go more than once, you’ve gotta have an exponential scaling cost increase. Or maybe you can do your attribute + 1 perk from the timeless shard, then for double the resource cost, you can fix a 2nd perk. Then the third perk can be randomly re-rolled, but at a staggering cost. And re-rolling anything would have to make it BoP, although maybe you introduce a token that allows you to give the item to a crafter to re-roll it for you so you don’t need to level the skill to 200 yourself. Or just set it so you don’t need 200 tradeskill to re-roll perks. Honestly not sure how I would flesh this out, but it’s an interesting possibility.

The biggest issue that I’m running into as an armorer is the conflict between PvE and PvP perks, and the general preferences of the market. Selling an armor piece pretty much mandates that you roll resilient on it, which is a PvP only perk. It’s dead, and a wasted slot for PvE, since enemies can’t crit. Conversely, if I’m trying to make a Ward set, that’s PvE only, which means that if I manage to get Resilient as one of my rolls, it’s a dead perk. Getting both perks on the same piece of gear basically means that I can’t sell it for anywhere near what it cost to craft. Perks that work in both are few and far between- Refreshing and Refreshing Evasion are good (Refreshing Ward is trash until it works with shields, because taking 5 hits from anything high level is going to kill you, meaning your cd reduction is pointless), and the various shirking perks are nice. And there are so many weapon perks, that the pool is just too diluted, while maybe a handful are valuable in both settings. Insatiable Gravity Well, Sundering Shockwave, Fortifying Sacred Ground, Nullifying Oblivion, Putrefying Scream. I’m sure there are others, but those seem to be the main ones.

So when you craft, you have to decide if you’re going to craft for yourself, or to sell. If you do mainly PvP, you can kinda do both, but if you do mainly PvE, it’s an either/or. You either roll Resilient, and hope to sell, or you roll a weapon perk and hope you get what you want. And maybe you’ll get lucky, and get a true BiS piece, but the odds of that actually happening are in the thousands.

With a reforge system in place, we would likely see more diversity in what people craft. No more “craft with resilient and sift through the trash”. People could craft with the 2nd perk that they wanted, then lock resilient if they didn’t get it. It might actually make sense to lock the weapon perk you want, shrinking the potential item pool significantly. Lots of ways to improve crafting to be better than the RNG lottery that it currently is.

[Blackxp]

1: I’ve always thought that instead of forcing two perks that you could allow a player to remove/blacklist a certain number of perks from the pool instead. It helps crafting feel slightly better without being BIS exceedingly common.

2: Salvaging should feel better for crafted items. No reason why 595-600 crafted items cannot give asmodeum back. Makes sense to me at least. Make salvaging all items feel better. Dropped items obviously need to salvage differently of course.

3: I think rerolling the attribute could be an option. I It’s frustrating when your have an otherwise perfect I’m but it has the wrong attribute. Ideally they will make creating smarter to make it so only weapon perks that work with the items attribute will be rolled, but still this would be a nice feature. Make it an expensive process and require a very rare drop. Final item is bound to player for balance reasons.

4: Re-rolling a single perk I think is reasonable. It’s still exceedingly rare to get a BIS item anyways, but gives players another try with their near-perfect items. Make it so it cannot roll the same perk because re-rolling the same one, albeit rare, is just a bad feeling haha. Final item is bound to player for balance reasons.

5: Give all of those worthless legendary items some value. Make it so they can be used on gear to do one of these interactions above? A new use? Used as materials for generic crafting? Right now there is no sink for them in the game and they just piling up and if there item is not BIS, which they are not and probably shouldn’t be, then no one makes the item. Even if it’s really good, people only need one of the item. As you can see they kinda pile up and take away that excitement players get when they find a legendary drop. Why not give them a new use?

Edit: Yeah reading the above. Also agree that there should be a limit on how many rerolls you have. I think having it limited to one is reasonable, I actually think having the cost increase each time is actually a nice way to limit it as well.

[aaronmsmith88]

@VengeanceAE

Conversely, if I’m trying to make a Ward set, that’s PvE only, which means that if I manage to get Resilient as one of my rolls, it’s a dead perk. Getting both perks on the same piece of gear basically means that I can’t sell it for anywhere near what it cost to craft.

This could be an easy fix. Make these perks exclusive. So that Wards cannot roll on the same armor as Resilient and vice versa!

@VengeanceAE

With a reforge system in place, we would likely see more diversity in what people craft. No more “craft with resilient and sift through the trash”. People could craft with the 2nd perk that they wanted, then lock resilient if they didn’t get it. It might actually make sense to lock the weapon perk you want, shrinking the potential item pool significantly. Lots of ways to improve crafting to be better than the RNG lottery that it currently is.

Agree 100%

@Blackxp

I’ve always thought that instead of forcing two perks that you could allow a player to remove/blacklist a certain number of perks from the pool instead.

This would be pretty cool actually. I dont know the easiest way to implement this, but you could re-work the trophy system and instead allow trophies to allow you to “blacklist” perks. For example.

Minor Trophies - Blacklist 3 perks per trophy.
Majors - Blacklist 5 perks per trophy.
This could get you 15 less perks in the pool (if you had 3x Majors).

@Blackxp

Re-rolling a single perk I think is reasonable. It’s still exceedingly rare to get a BIS item anyways, but gives players another try with their near-perfect items. Make it so it cannot roll the same perk because re-rolling the same one, albeit rare, is just a bad feeling haha. Final item is bound to player for balance reasons.

So you would “Bind” any re-forged gear then? This would remove it from the crafter-economy.

[Blackxp]

Love the trophy idea. Honestly any way to remove perks from the pool would be nice. So at least you stop ending up with mining luck and those really feel bad moments. I do totally agree it is much better than forcing two perks think as there needs to be some balance.

Hmm not sure why I’m thinking BOP, maybe a way to reward crafters for having leveled the skill? I suppose I think of crafting a little differently. I don’t think it’s possible to make it rewarding financially. As unpopular of an opinion that may be. If it takes 10k gold to roll a 15k item on average, then people are gonna keep doing until it’s equalized by flooding the market. In addition to this the xp you obtain has intrinsic value. Aptitude chests. Etc.

I do think it can feel better. People can put in 500k of crafting materials and get pretty much nothing out of it. That’s crazy. It’s a very all or nothing system. I think there should be more control so that people can make something decent for themselves. I think what crafting could become is a way to better improve your own gear and less focused on rolling BIS to sell. Maybe working towards finding ways to craft for others as a service. So you can still help out company friends by helping them reroll perks and attributes?

I think a good example of this is BOP replica armor. By having it BOP they can better push those armors a little more, such as having a 597-600 range instead of 595-600 knowing it won’t flood the market with legendaries.

Just some thoughts, can’t say I know the right answer here but it would be nice if we can make crafting feel better.

[VengeanceAE]

Would love to remove entire perk buckets. Maybe you get to remove 1 if you have all 3 major trophies, and another as a fort control bonus (instead of that completely worthless +5 to max crafting BS they are testing on the PTR now). That way you could eliminate the Ward and Gathering Luck that ruins so many potential BiS pieces.

I do like the idea of being able to adjust the attribute. For example, I was rolling some dex light pants recently, and I got 3 legendary items in the space of 6 rolls. Was locking resilient, and I got the following:

#1: invigorated, Nullifying Oblivion
#2.: Corrupted Ward, Refreshing Pillar of Fire
#3: Angry Earth Ward, Refreshing Charge

All 3 of those would be good rolls that I would be happy to run myself, except they in no way pair with any type of dex build that people run. Got me so frustrated that I basically gave up rolling dex, and did the “constitution” rolling that every other crafter does. But if I could switch any of them over to a better attribute (con, int, whatever), then they would be valuable, even if they became bound to me.

[GrailQuest]

I like the idea of retrofittng / upgrading / controlling perks but also Binding the result.
This gives a good balance between making Crafting worthwhile pursuing and reducing RNG, while not flooding the market with best or near-best gear.
It also makes gear you get from a random drop more than just Salvage fodder if you happen to get something with perks you like.

Simply rerolling perks – especially with AGS adding more perks to the pool – will just end up with the next wave of complaints, which is the RNG is still bad and you end up rerolling “forever”. By at least being able to keep the perks you like, you can make at least incremental progress.
No one should be able to just go to the Trading Post and buy exactly what they want / bis gear / near-bis gear, especially when the history of this game is that most such actions are invariably linked to RMT money.

Crafting / gathering chokepoints – and solutions - Game Feedback / Game Feedback - New World Forums

[NotMadness]

I like the ideas of rerolling using salvaged legendary items over using mats I have a post on it but basically each legendary item salvaged would give you one of (new item) you can then use 15, 30 or 50 of this new item to to reroll one perk the more you use the better the perk pool or more controlled it is

[aaronmsmith88]

@Blackxp

If it takes 10k gold to roll a 15k item on average, then people are gonna keep doing until it’s equalized by flooding the market.

I think you are right here, considering there are no real barriers to entry on crafting, everyone I know is a 200 armorer, and has minimally 3x Minor trophies.

so if you could make money armoring, everyone would do it, so that you couldnt make money doing it.

@Blackxp

I think there should be more control so that people can make something decent for themselves. I think what crafting could become is a way to better improve your own gear and less focused on rolling BIS to sell.

I think this could very well be the key to this approach of reforging. This also would alleviate your concern:

@Blackxp

People can put in 500k of crafting materials and get pretty much nothing out of it. That’s crazy. It’s a very all or nothing system

BECAUSE - now you are allowing for “Near Miss” items, to have value, because someone else can buy them from you, and “reforge” them to suit their own needs! So this would create more “sellable” items.

@GrailQuest

I like the idea of retrofittng / upgrading / controlling perks but also Binding the result.
This gives a good balance between making Crafting worthwhile pursuing and reducing RNG, while not flooding the market with best or near-best gear.

Agree exactly, and seems to agree with the idea of this thread.

@GrailQuest

No one should be able to just go to the Trading Post and buy exactly what they want / bis gear / near-bis gear, especially when the history of this game is that most such actions are invariably linked to RMT money.

Completely agree. Just “raw” crafting a BIS item to sell should be incredibly difficult. It should be more attainable for the average joe, however, to feel there is a small progression they can make towards their own goals, however.

[VengeanceAE]

Had another thought on this that I wanted to get down before I lost it (again). Not fully fleshed out, so bear with me. Crafting is a profession. Professions are things that people engage in to generate income to meet their other expenses. Currently, with the state of New World, crafting as a profession is broken, as the cost of materials far exceeds the value of the items crafted, except in those rare “win the lottery” types of situations. So how can we both improve crafting as a way to generate income, and improve the odds of getting useable items from those crafts.

The best answer I can come up with is to give crafters a token that they can either use or sell, that will allow them to re-roll one perk or attribute on a piece of gear. If they use it themselves, the gear that they use it on will be bound to them. If they sell it, then the person who bought it can give an item to the crafter, along with the token, and they will be able to re-roll a single attribute or perk, and give that item back, at which point it will become bound to the original owner again.

If this was done in a manner similar to gypsum, where you are limited to 1 or 2 tokens a day, (or week) it would increase the viability of crafting. Limit it to only be able to be attained once you have 200 level crafting in a given skill. I thought about having the tokens be rewards be in aptitude crates, but that would just concentrate them more in the big company crafters, who frankly don’t need the help as much as the little independent crafters. Also, you go through a silly amount of mats to get a single aptitude level, so it would kinda defeat the purpose of helping crafters make money. by selling the tokens to non-crafters.

With this, you have the possibility to make a 2 perk Legendary with gathering luck or beast ward into something that is better, even if it isn’t BiS. Maybe allow us to use craft mods to specifically lock out an individual perk or bucket (so that we don’t keep getting Beast Ward or Logging Luck, and also give those craft mods some utility, other than being use for repair kits). You can even limit the number of times a perk can be re-rolled. Or make it limitless, but increase the materials cost each time that perk is re-rolled. And obviously, once you re-roll one perk on an item, the other 2 would be locked forever.

This would be a nice little reward for those of us who have leveled professions to 200, while not limiting the benefits to only crafters, the way that expedition replica gear is. PvP players could spend the gold they make from town ownership buying these tokens from crafters to improve their gear, instead of being forced to engage in PvE stuff that they don’t like. And this would probably need to be limited to crafted items only- no re-rolling dungeon drops.

Am I missing anything? Like I said, it’s basically a half formed plan at the moment, but it would be really cool if they implemented something like this.

[aaronmsmith88]

So you are borrowing off the idea that a “daily CD” creates value. We see this with Asmodeum, where the CD is valuable (around 1k). If they removed the CD, 200 Smelters could create 100,000 Asmo in 1 day, and the profit/value of Asmo would be gone. It would simply be a function of sheer volume/numbers.

So having a daily (or weekly) “CD” on the number of reforge attempts, would make sense.

Allow Crafters to create Reforge “Kits”. Maybe once per day (or 10 per week?). That allows players to reforge a piece of gear. The kits could be unbound. If you use said Kit, it Binds the Item. Kinda like Umbral Upgrading Binds the item to you.

My only concern here would be it shifts the “value” of a good crafter AWAY from making armor, into making this reforge token.

The best idea that I have heard so far, to put value back onto crafters, is somehow allow REALLY GOOD crafters to remove perks from the perk pools, to have a more “focused” craft.

What if THAT was the “daily CD” item. Rather than reforge, a system that allowed a crafter to make like 10/week items, that restricted the perk pool. So now you have your time-gate that provides VALUE to crafters.

The VALUE is provided to the crafter, because it allows them a more narrow focus?

[VengeanceAE]

I don’t think the ideas need to be mutually exclusive. I only think a cooldown is appropriate, because it will keep things on a more even footing for everyone. Design decisions basically need to be made to where they can be beneficial not only for those with unlimited resources, but for the rest of us as well. With shell companies and the massive income from the major trading hubs, there are certain players that have access to pretty much whatever they want. If there was no cooldown on “reforge kits”, then they could just spam as many as they wanted by buying out the market for whatever resources were required to make them. A daily or weekly limit would do a lot to curb this behavior, since crafters would have to decide whether they sell them to the highest bidder, or use them for their own gear, or their friends.

That’s why I think it should be limited to crafted items, but not limited to being done by the original crafter. It should be something that encourages crafting, and adds value to crafting as a profession.

But your idea of a limited number of crafting attempts with a smaller perk pool is good, but I don’t think it’s enough with how they are constantly expanding the perk buckets. A Great Axe has 53 possible perks, most of which are garbage. Armor seems to have around 100. And you’re still looking at 1/6 chance for legendary. Knocking out 5 or 10 perks from pools that big isn’t likely to make much of a dent in the overall supply of useful items. It will just limit the number of times you get a good roll spoiled by Beast Ward of Logging Luck. I think it would be great if they introduced both of these things together, but unless we are able to exclude multiple perk BUCKETS, I don’t think being able to exclude would be worth getting excited over. Kinda like the +5 Fort control bonus for Morningdale that only increases max rolls, which means it’s going to be effectively useless.

[Knight.GB]

+1 to reforging / ability to re-roll one perk on gear. It can even be time-gated to one reforge per day and cost the same in materials as crafting the piece originally (less crafting modifiers).

One of the best things about NW so far is your gear grows with you and it isn’t just a treadmill every 4 month’s where your entire gear set is junked in order to farm everything again.

One of the worst things is NW is the sheer RNG in trying to craft a useful 3-perk piece. I totally get it shouldn’t be easy, but right now the RNG and cost of crafting (relative to gameplay) is still kinda insane. I’m a firm believer in the crafting system (all gathering, refining, crafting min-maxed) but frustrated that despite crafting almost daily all of my crafted pieces thus far have ended up having to be purchased to get 3/3 useful perks.

[onealone]

@aaronmsmith88

requests for a reforge system

When I read these posts before and read them now these are not requests for a reforge system.

They are a request for crafting to be fundamentally altered. This is in order, as the posts point out, to prevent an incredible discouragement players are feeling.

While to some that may sound similar it is not. Players making posts like this are not asking for yet another system to be added on to crafting.

This is not meant to sound like a harsh rejection of your idea. It’s meant to point out that many players, crafters want the overall system to be changed.

[aaronmsmith88]

@onealone

crafters want the overall system to be changed.

The problem is, there is no easy way to change crafting. If you can select an attribute and TWO perks, crafting is OP and too easy to get good gear.

If crafting is as it is now, its a problem, too much RNG.

There is no good/easy/simple way to change crafting as it stands now. Timeless Shards were their attempt.

The problem is sheer RNG.

The solution is what many other games have done, and add a reforge system where you can “re-roll” a perk on a piece of gear, and get more attempts and “fine-tuning” a piece of gear towards desired perks.

[onealone]

Fair enough.

Crafting really cannot and with this company will not receive an overhaul.

As to too much control or too much RNG that is the root of the problem. Having given it some thought at times it really isn’t clear how to proceed. Perhaps an approach like yours might work well.

Doing what another game does though seems to have been entirely ignored. The twenty plus years of mmo’s to learn from and it doesn’t seem they bothered.

[aaronmsmith88]

@onealone

Crafting really cannot and with this company not receive an overhaul.

As to too much control or too much RNG that is the root of the problem. Having given it some thought at times it really isn’t clear how to proceed. Perhaps an approach like yours might work well.

Doing what another game does though seems to have been entirely ignored. The twenty plus years of mmo’s to learn from and it doesn’t seem they bothered.

Agree completely. Ive been mulling this over for a while, and as you suggested. Too much control will ruin the market. Too little and its too RNG based.

A “re-forge” system is probably the best option for this game. Lots of ways to add it, but simply put, just let people “re-roll” 1 perk on items. Heck, make it cost as much as forging an item outright (Asmo, Runic, Phoeinix) but it would save Timeless + Crafting Mod, and you would already be starting with what you wanted (stat + 1 perk) but its still quite a bit of RNG to get the 2nd or 3rd perk you want… It would atleast be better than current system without breaking it.