Regarding Musket DPS

Hi AGS,

The musket is capable of hitting decently hard, but the DPS factor pales in comparison to every melee weapon.

  1. Nearly everything on the musket has an animation (loading, aiming, abilities) and to do heavy hitting abilities like Powder Burn you need to animate again after it automatically does a loading animation after the previous shot (resulting in a “double” animation). This leads to a lot of downtime on the weapon, so when it comes to finishing off a player that is low in PvP, or just trying to do consistent DPS on a boss fight, it is quite weak. As a start, remove the animation for the on-use abilities and have them automatically apply to the currently loaded shot.

  2. The projectile size is extremely small, much smaller than arrows. For a weapon that does less DPS than a bow (assuming all shots hit), it is made even worse when the accuracy is also worse. The projectile size could be increased by about 15%, and the aiming reticle covers up headshots often times so a simple circle or a crosshair with a center gap would help this.

  3. In PvP, the musket (especially when players are wearing high amounts of crit mitigation) really lacks a punch. In addition, friendly player collision blocking my shots makes it even less effective. During large scale battles, musket feels like it is tickling players but cannot outpace the healing they receive at a range. Really causes a lack of variety in the PvP combat when the incentive here is just to close distance and join in on the deathball with the melee. The base damage considering points 1 and 2 above should be increased, and the headshot multiplier based off of the upgraded damage should be a nice improvement. We really need to make muskets a threat, and at this point if you are in a large scale battle people ignore muskets shooting at them because they just stand in healing AoEs or simply just outpace the damage with consumes while they move onto the next target. Another option to consider would be a “mortal strike” effect for muskets, that makes them apply a reduced healing effect on the target for a short duration.

Source: I have tested the DPS by recording my screen during encounters with crits (heads shots and backstabs) and without and looking at the time to kill.

28 Likes

I definitely find the double animation to be extremely annoying. Even if it’s a deliberate design choice, it feels like it’s just a result of bad programming.

If I had it my way, I would actually make it so that reloading is performed manually using a key, and Powder Burn etc. would be instant-cast skills that took effect upon your next reload. The idea of magically changing the type of shot while the bullet is already in there seems a bit odd to me - but then again, I also wouldn’t exactly be complaining if they decided to go that route!

10 Likes

The damage needs a buff and in addition musket I feel should be a penetrating attack since that’s actually how it works in real life except maybe after an equip load (heavy and medium stops bullets).

8 Likes

Yeah, it definitely needs more damage to offset the long reload time.
Also that hit register issue should be fixed, tho I’m not sure if it’s ally collision, as I tried to shot trough teammates and it seemed to work.

6 Likes

+1 for making the reticle customizable. I hate aiming with a reticle that covers up what im aiming at.

16 Likes

Not to mention the damn name plate with it

5 Likes

The musket lights me up in LA, fighting players yesterday it was was winning fights with how easy it is to kite away and land shots, it outmatches the bow in every respect in PvP. I can only imagine how you would find the bow for PvP if you think the musket needs a buff there.

2 Likes

Additionally, you can guarantee it won’t be receiving buffs in PvP any time soon, if what a dev mentioned yesterday is true, in that they base their decisions on facts and data with the weapon being so popular, and doing so much work.

2 Likes

Both the bow & the musket pale in comparison to almost all weapons for this patch. I’ve tested dmg scaling with attributes, and the time to kill (considering the animation times) really hinders dmg output.

300 DEX musket or bow players do less dmg than 150 INT Ice Gauntlet players.
If a melee target gets up close, good luck landing a hit with either as I think the projectile is rendered in front of the character model, and doesn’t appear to hit targets at point blank. (could also be their terrible netcode w/ ranged)

4 Likes

The closer they are the more you have to aim down and to the right… This has to do with the fact that your character is offset to the left slightly for over the shoulder aiming. Same goes for axe throwing and spears… spears come from the left when thrown, axes come from the right slightly.

The rifle is fine, it does a lot of damage at long range consistently, the bow is more a skirmisher weapon that requires you to land consistent shots. That said the bow is infinitely harder to use than the rifle.

This thread is not about ability to aim, I’ve tested all of the TTKs using 100% accuracy on target screen recordings. Musket is not a threat in large battles vs a deathball, there is no reason for someone to separate off from the deathball of melee to eliminate a musket threat.

idk if anyone brought it up but the musket on top of all other ranged weapons are difficult to use in pve at a distance, such is their nature of use meaning that enemies drop agro in two seconds and are full health in no time. meaning you are forced to get up to their face and shot them and keep dodging back in circles untill you kill them. this could be avoided if they dropped agro distance at all. mfw when i need to use musket at melee range.jpg

2 Likes

This is actually true for just about every single old weapon… bow, musket, spear, rapier, non-caster items. But… the point of a musket is to target the casters and delete them, or at least interfere. The same cannot be said of any of the other melee weapons besides great axe and hatchet (which offer either huge damage, control, resistance and healing in a nice package). It 100% feels like older weapons pale in comparison to the caster weapons right now, but I’ve definitely been deleted by a musket.

by more damage, i think some armor penetration would be good.

4 Likes

hitscan

Musket reload mechanics make DPS’ing with a Musket such a pain and unreliable.

Please fix damage and reload mechanics;
Reload into dodge and reload doesn’t restart when dodge is finished
Attack, dodge and reload doesn’t start until i aim down sights

Please fix ADS;
Attack into dodge and ADS sometimes is delayed despite repeated RMB presses

6 Likes

If it doesn’t have the DPS with 100% accuracy to outpace a player popping consumes constantly then what is the point of it? That’s what I am getting at. Sorta makes it not worth using and just joining into the melee deathball with everyone else. This makes the PvP lack variety when its just a blob of melee colliding off each other and spamming into a mess of people with a great axe.

2 Likes

Funny enough, if it were based in real life, yes bullets should be penetrating damage and arrows should be blunt damage because if armors didnt work, no one would use them. And that’s exactly what they did in old times, they bruised much like bullets against kevlar.

1 Like

I am really liking the armor penetration idea, that seems realistic and could really help this situation. Make it where headshots or critical strikes penetrate by X%.

1 Like

I’d be interested in your sources. As far as I know (having learned the history of weaponry and armor during my 15 years that I studied art of german school of sword fighting), cuirass and other plate armor types were meant to counteract stabbing and slashing melee weapons, with gambeson (a padded jacket worn under plate armor) helping to distribute the impact and also offering a major relief from blunt weapon blows.

Historically speaking, medieval archers found it rather easy to penetrate plate armor, by simply sticking a small ball of tree resin to the tip of iron-tipped arrows. On impact, the resin produced enough added friction to stop the arrow from sliding, so the entire energy of the flying arrow could literally pierce through the armor.

As for musket balls and other period firearm projectiles, I’d say they were more on the blunt side of the spectrum; rather large and heavy - as the firearms grew more powerful, they were able to smash through the armor as well, leaving some really nasty looking armor pieces behind.

That is also what made plate armor obsolete; there was no use lugging around additional 30lbs of steel that offered as much protection against rapidly spreading use of firearms as a regular canvas jacket.

4 Likes