S&B Changes to make it more relevent in tanking and Dps

This section is mostly opinionated. I’ll only be going over weapons that I think need the help, seeing a weapon is only as good as its user to an extent. Everyone’s play style is different and some may use it better than others.
**Note this is all due to change. With the introduction of the Great Sword I want to test more combinations before adding others to this list. I’m currently still going through testing phases and weapons may change again before the October release.

*Sword and Board - With the most recent weapon launch, Great Sword, I have really started to dig in to what the skills for the Sword and Board offer and their worth. Currently at this time, Sword and Board doesn’t really need to be in any team composition. There is literally no need for a tank in PvP or PvE due to perks and damage outputs that most other weapons provide. Even the Great Sword at this time offers better “Tankability” then the Sword and Board. Most of the single perks, not connected to skills, are fine and can continue to be used. What I’ve come up with is a new skill tree for both sides that would better fit a Tank and tanking abilities. Not only that, but could potentially change the normal meta for wars by adding more strategy and team composition into the mix.

  1. Swordmaster
    As for the left side of the tree, I feel the gap closer with (Leaping Strike) is fine, along with (Whirling Blade) for more of an offensive attack. (Backstab) though in my opinion, needs to be swapped out for some kind of (Parry). It doesn’t need to stun, it just needs to negate the damage and reposition the player to the adjacent side of the opponent. The first perk (Unstoppable Stab) would be replaced with (Enforced Sidestep): applies grit to this parry. The second perk (Tactician) would be replaced with (Deep Wound): after the parry, press light attack to activate a slashing attack. This attack, if it hits, applies 1 stack of bleed for 6 seconds that does 10% weapon damage per second.
  2. Defender
    This side of the tree would receive the most change. When I envision a tank, I look at it as a character who’s primary roll is to absorb damage and prevent others from being attacked. At this current time, none of the skills on the right side of the tree really do that. Again, a lot of the single perks on this side of the tree can stay, just the skills and skill perks need to be reworked.Though (Shield Bash) is nice, the recent change of (Leaping Strike) has really made this skill lackluster due to not being a viable combo. I would rather see something like (Shield Reflect) : depending on the size of the shield wielded : 25% for small, 50% for Kite, 75% for large, of all incoming attacks for (5 seconds) is reflected back to the attacking person(s). This skill does lock you in position. For the first perk (Intimidating Bash) could be changed to (Mirror Finish): where you increase the (%) of damage reflected back another 10%. For the second perk (Concussive Bash) it could be replaced by (Stand Your Ground): apply Grit to the skill.(Shield Rush) In my experience testing it, doesn’t really stand out compared to how some of the weapons can do the same or better effects. I would like to see it swapped out for (Azoth Armor): Increase physical and elemental resistance by 10%. This consumes 1 azoth for every second you have it active. (Improved Rush) would be replaced by (Azoth Fusion) : consume 2 azoth per second to receive another 5% increase physical and elemental resistance. Lastly (Intimidating Rush) would we swapped out for (Azoth Thorns): consuming 3 azoth per second which converts a (%) of incoming melee attacks reflected back as damage to the attacker. *This would introduce the first active passive into the game. This would stay on as long as the player chooses to keep this active or until their azoth supply runs out.Lastly (Defenders Resolve) would be replaced by (United We Stand): Selected member gets 20% increased physical and elemental resistance based off your physical and elemental resistance. Player must remain no further than 25m away or the skill ends. The first perk (Final Countdown) would be replaced with (Share the Pain) : you absorb 50% of the teammate’s damage taken. The final perk (Restoration) would be replaced with (A Life For A Life) : Upon death, linked member is healed by 50% of your maximum HP.

At this time I’m only going over the Sword and Board, as I feel it needs the most attention.

Link back to master post : New World : Changes To Make it Better

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I’m not really sure why you call [sword and shield] [sword and board]. Is there anything that I am missing ?

Just to clarify, the game has 2 distinct mode. PvP and PvE. I only participate in PvE, so I’ll only talk about PvE.

First of all, I’m pretty happy with the current state of the SnS. The only downside would be that the 10% increase dmg to the whole party is a bit to strong to not take.

Personnally, I run Reverse Stab, Shield Bash, Defiant Stance with 500 con. It works by reducing the cooldown of taunt abilities. It might not be optimal, but it suits me. I do not find any desire to change any of the abilities of SnS.

Offensive Tree:

  • Why would you change Reverse Stab ?
  • Why would it need to be a defensive trait when it is on the offensive tree ?

Defensive Tree:

  • You said that none of the skills help preventing damage. In reality, all of the skills prevent damage. Shield Bash is a Stun + Taunt. Shield Rush is a stagger + Weakening Abilities + Fortified. Defiant Stance is a damage reduction + AOE Taunt
  • Having azoth cost on skill is terrible idea. Each time you want to do an Expedition/OPR you need to run corruption portal ?
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500 con? You must not run in very many PUG groups, I do 100 str and 400 con since most of the dungeon bosses seem to be just question of how big damage fest is, and I also run leaching for self healing…

But I don’t see how someone could tank without the RS, SB, and DS, besides the leadership perk

I’m the one creating the group, so I do not have any issue. Also, I’m able to run any expedition just fine. To be honest, most people are too obsess with the optimal composition.

DPS is rarely the reason why an expedition is not completed with gold.

So for your first question, Sword and Shield and Sword and Board are the same thing, some people just refer to it differently.

The posting is set for being able to run both PvP and PvE. Currently, again in my opinion, its very lackluster on the PvP side of things. The defensive tree doesn’t really offer team defense mechanics or support as how I’ve played many tank characters in the past before. Another hinderance is due to how CON scales with your attribute points but that’s a completely different topic. It’s current load out does cater more toward the PvE side of the game. Problem with that is when you do a skill set for offensive or defensive skills you need to find a balance to where it works with both play styles.

Yes you have your Ult skill perk at the bottom, but that only helps if they are within X amount of meters. I do understand on the offensive side how it is a global buff of 10%, but again the tank role is to absorb damage, negate damage and support your team member(s).

The game has many ways to get out of stuns, weakens, slows and such. Having more of it on a tank instead of damage absorbing skills just seems like your not playing a Tank class. Again this is all my opinion on that. I’ve been playing with SnS since alpha in 2019 and seen it go through a lot of changes, it just seems to be missing fundaments of what a Tank really is.

The reason for swapping reverse stab is yes it may give you cooldown on skills if hit, but your damage output as a Tank really is non-existent. So building RS is only to keep popping DS and SB, which again really isn’t helping your team out in most battles. Yes 1v1 and maybe some 2v2s it might would be viable. But when in deep combat of 50v50 or greater in open world, its effects and that rotation based on burst damage is of no use really.

*I will say, they may be a better offensive skill for a tank thank Parry that I had mentioned, but for someone carrying a shield, a parry would seem to fit the bill better than a backstab, again IMO.

The Parry by the way is an offensive or defensive trait, all depends on how you use it, If you have taken the perks, which was listed, does apply a bleed off the light attack just after the parry.

Defensive Tree Question.
Again yes you are right in a 1v1, 2v2 style scenario. Again it is almost useless when it comes to massive wars of 50v50 and more in open world. Again to fight the comment, it would work perfect as it is for PvE. Not everyone likes just PvE. So again its very lackluster. The skills it has need to pertain to both PvE and PvP.

Azoth cost…if your having issues with keeping azoth then your doing something wrong. At no time have I ever not had azoth. I’m a crafter and dungeon/expedition delver as well. I’ve never ran into an issue where I was even close to ever being out of azoth. Also I’ve never had to buy any Azoth Vials ever in all my time playing due to the shear number of them you get just by looting chest and killing stuff.

When I tank I only run 300 con and 200 str. Haven’t had a reason to run anymore than that for any PvE stuff.

Again though, this is all down to different peoples play styles.

Here is the thing. In mmo role (as opposed to class) design is based on the trinity. The trinity is the foundation of all mmo design, and all the tank class is the foundation of the trinity.

The tanking role is extremely important and yet it is also the least played role in an mmo. There are many innovations the “newbie” designer energy could go right with and ags just has not picked up on this (as many others have not). I have mentioned it a few times but it would be far better for the game to simply do away with the concept that “a tank needs to have a shield” to exist.

For this reason we should see tanking that is duel wield or even two handed based, Please listen carefully to this next statement forum alts of designers, that you make it “mimic” the feel of dps, not actually be a dps class. There is a subtle difference between them.

I mentioned in the past in some length the real reason people do not tank is largely due to the lack of “competition” in that class. Tanks do not generally compete with each other, they cooperate. for this reason there is no ego aspect to the role and there for it is less common.

Shifting the “feel” of the class to a “dps” aspect with lots of taunts and threat would solve this issues, however, this would mean that the entire concept of mitigations would need a design pass (aka rework). One such way to do this is to shift the concept of block into “parry” aspects, where weapons could “parry”. This would potentially and fundamentally shift things like rapier into an option for tanking. Another way to do this would be to simply revisit the way the mechanics of a boss fight are created, which could be very interesting and unique. For example talents for this weapon / role would support taking boss damage (with reduced boss damage perks, traits, talents etc), which would leave the class a dps class in pvp (with slightly lower dps and slightly higher defense). In this way you shift the bosses damage out off the tank to boss fight and since the boss would one shot classe (in theory) that are not using such talents, the entire war between tank and boss would be around keeping threat on them making tanking mimic dps, but keep its role and identity and relatively nothing really changes (outside of a ton of dev work).

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I like the facts here, but at the same time this would be catering just to the PvE side of things.

Currently in this game threat is treated as a taunt doesn’t apply to any PvP aspects. So this is where the rework portion would come in. That’s if I’ve read your statement correctly.

I personally don’t think the shield bash skill is fine. It’s a readable skill that has a long cooldown for an absolutely mediocre effect due to the simple fact it’s form of CC is terrible. Stuns in this game are not cooperative, but rather competitive on setup, because a single tick of damage just breaks the entire setup, meaning the only proper way to get someone punished by a Tank, is…to do it solo, which is counter intuitive of a tank. Combined with the intense mobility of other classes and escapes, it’s baffling that they still haven’t touched on the DR system and buffed CC in general. If shield bash was a proper stun, it would be an amazing tool with proper cooldown for such a game changer effect, but at the same time, with proper DR, properly answers CC spam.

Where it is true that tanking in PvP might not be in a good position, it is fine in PvE.

I do not find any compelling reason why Reverse Stab should be change as it is a good ability in PvE. It might not suit the PvP aspect of the game, but it doesnt need to.

I’m pretty sure that 1v1, 2v2 skimish are less favorable for tank. In 1v1 or 2v2, you can just ignore him most of the time where in 50v50 you need to kill him because he is standing on the point.

If I were to modify tanking, I would love to have more tool to assit my team by peeling people. (In PvP)

You are saying that Azoth is not an issue which is totally true. At the moment, you do not need Azoth. But, if abilities would cost azoth, you would always be in need of azoth. Each time you would want to run content, you would need to start by doing Corruption Portal.

Unfortunately I disagree, today it is not necessary to have a tank even to make m10.

It is only true for the 0.1%. Not having a tank increase the difficulty of the expedition but reduce the time it takes. The same argument could be made for healer.

There is not a lot of PUG that run 4 dps - healer.

I will rephrase my comment.

A tank with heavy armor and 300 con is no longer needed.

Yeap, tanking is useless in PvP because you can’t force a target lock, It’s one of the nice and interesting things about new world is you don’t have tab targeting. Unless they introduce tab targeting(highly unlikely) then the taunt will be useless in PvP unless they give it a massive PvP-specific Buff/Debuff.

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You mean like Warhammer Online did? I thought that form of taunt was amazing, as it’s a great, but non-invasive form of control with it. Put a debuff on the enemy team that reduces their damage output on everything BUT the tank, and they have to damage the tank 3 times in order to break out of the debuff, or wait for the duration to end. Has to be damage, not hitting the shield or DoT. Combined with proper stuns and DR overhaul, Tanks could be useful both in PvE and in PvP greatly.

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Carnelian should have a pvp effect.
Ex: au using a skill compatible with carnelian having the gem on the weapon, you would apply slow in the area of ​​effect.

Never played Warhammer online. But right now if you play OPR or Area, it’s just a melee/ranged/healer fest, with bruser-type melee’s screaming nerf this or that since I can’t get my one-click kill.

But right now as a tank for most of the time, if I want to solo content or do any of the PvP(solo), I have to respec EVERY time… I could just run a dex meta, but then you have the issue that so many people run that, and it is not good for dungeons.

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I’ll be sure to share the feedback with the team. We’re constantly listening and working on the balance of the weapons while also trying to mantain the balance of the overall use and need of different weapons in different situations.

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Shadow i think the biggest thing at this point (for class design specifically), would really be for you to look into the mechanics around classes and the variables that are interacting with them. I feel like this would provide the most significant improvement for the lowest amount of effort. Bullet point examples of how to improve the gameplay experience are

  • heavy attack animations
  • blocking consuming a resource like stamina while stamina also is consumed by running, this will provide an end to endless kite “roadrunner” builds.
  • unique resource systems (replacing mana) for weapons, not everything needs mana.
  • regeneration of resources being done by light/heavy attacks, more so heavy. one of the major problems iwth new world that you guys are failing to see is that things are to heavily “action based”. those attacks should be about sustaining the resources to use abilities, not doing competitive damage to it. This is probably one of the greatest improvements that can be made.
  • ABSOLUTELY NEEDED AND REQUIRED: Remove animation cancelling. Its destructive to balance for both pve and pvp.

ps. good to see you again.

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on another note i will mention that at this point mages state is so upsetting that i simply don’t play the game, which is very sad because i really want too.