Significant Crafting Overhaul - Brain Dump

TLDR: Move away from the “magic melting pot” of crafting gear, and towards the use of composition of parts to make the.

Old system:
The current crafting-system can be oversimplied into a “magic melting pot” in which you pick a recipe (pattern, timeless shard, artefact) and then throw your materials, craft mods and azoth into it. And it magically forms into what you wanted to craft. Exactly how random it is, depends on the recipe used. Because of the way it has been designed, all the randomness that is there, happens at once. This essentially is a lottery. You can control the odds, but you arent lovingly and caringly crafting something to feel really proud of.

I am assuming that it has been designed this way to make the actual material-cost of getting what you want a lot higher. But in a more entertaining way than simply increasing the costs.

Potential system:
Now, an alternative system would not be doing everything at once.
It would have a recipe for the gearpiece(ie musket), where you would combine the different parts (stock, barrel, firing mechanism) to define the gearscore of that piece, and then add the craft mods to the slots available for that gearscore to define the attribute and perks. With no randomness.
If you do not fill a perkslot, it will remain empty - important for some bonus features below.
Ideally you should also have a slot where you could add a pattern to define the appearance of the piece, if you dont want the one that is selected by default (based on gearscore or parts used).
You could allow random generation of names, or at risk of trolls having a field-day, even allow people to name them.

This means that you get complete control at this stage, and you are entirely focused on that piece of gear. And when you are done, you might even feel pride over your work.

The parts themselves are added as recipes for each profession, and it is here we now move the randomness and material sink. It now exists in trying to craft for example a stock, a barrel and a firing mechanism, all at a high enough GS to get your musket to to the gearscore you want.

Bonus Features:
Thats essentially the core of it. But what would really make this system interesting is the ability to:

Replace parts, to upgrade or downgrade.

  • Open up and replace any part of the current weapon. Fairly cheap, but the part you replace is lost.
  • If in doing so you get a new perk-slot, you can then replace that empty slot with a craftmod.
  • If in doing so a slot is lost, the relevant craftmod is destroyed as well.

Extract parts, to get a high GS piece or a specific craft-mod

  • Give a fairly high/guaranteed chance to extract one piece you select, and a very low chance of extracting additional random pieces. Anything not extracted is lost in the process, as is the gear-piece of course.
  • Should work on all gear, giving an alternative source for high GS-components and rare craft-mods.
  • (New World is in a fairly unique position already to allow this with how every perk already has a craftmod defined)
  • Could potentially allow the extraction of an “apperance”-pattern from gear as well, allowing a “version” of transmogging which is still under the realm of crafting, and would not compete as much with real skins.

Add high GS components to the droptable

  • Would replace the artifacts that drops for specific recipes today, these artifacts could be used as inspiration for parts
  • Having good wooden parts drop from “wooden” bosses, or “sword” parts drop a boss using a sword gives an ingame tell-tale of who you should fight for what.

Make appearance only patterns a thing

  • Pretty much already exists as event-rewards (wint convergence)
  • Used to “define” the appearance of all existing gear
  • Can be extracted like other parts?
  • Added to drop-table?

Other thoughts:

Unchanged progression
The max gearscore on a piece is defined by the amount of parts in the recipe and the max GS on each part in that piece. The simplest way to use this is to have a single recipe for each gear-piece which can accepts parts of any material.
That way the cap on materials used serves as a soft cap on the final gear-piece, ie you can only get so far with starmetal and wyrdwood-parts.
So in its simplest form, it would progress in very much the same manner as of today, just that you unlock the recipes for parts of different materials instead of multiple recipes for gear.

Legacy enabled
If you make it so that the underlying structure (GS distribution for Parts, craftmods and appearance-pattern) of a dropped gear-piece is calculated from the stats of the gear-piece the first time you disassemble it and take a look, you could apply this system retroactively on all existing gear without having to worry to much about “legacy”.

Future safe
This system has no best-before-date. You could essentially have replaced the entirety of the Umbral system by allowing parts with a GS just a few notches higher to have a chance to rarely drop in mutations or from maxed out gypsum-caches.
And you could also orchestrate max GS-bumps by adding additional part-recipes, even if there are no new recources. Where the original “Asmodeum barrel” is capped at 200 (for a max of 600 GS) and the new recipe for a “Fine Asmodeum barrel” is capped at 210(for a max of 630GS if all parts get a “Fine”-equivalent) and the Fine barrel just costs more of the same resources to make.
And when the day comes that we get new zones, higher levels and new materials… Well, just add the relevant part-recipes and the new default appearances for weapons at that GS and we are good to go.

Additionaly, since people can slowly replace the parts in the weapons they use, they will get all the excitement of a max GS-bump, without the apprenhsion or worry that could come with it.
Even for the smaller intermediate bumps.

Crafting as a service
This system would benefit greatly from the ability to perform profession-based tasks on other players gear/material without actually having to take control of the material from them.Would for instance allow a Master Weaponsmith to upgrade a weapon bound to someone else, since they can do it without it leaving that player.
But, in all fairness, crafting as a service is a feature which would be very useful for the current system too where you trade cooldowns, roll gear for others or upgrade their trohpies.

Meaningful event rewards
This system would actually give patterns that are awarded from events a real chance at being used. Because as it currently is, the patterns you could buy at the winter-event is probably not going to see widespread use, since they cannot be combined with timeless shards and few people have the resources to “waste” on additional randomness just for looks.
But, with the new crafting system you would even be able to change the looks on the weapon you are currently using, if you can suffer the loss of any pattern already in that slot.

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I’ve always been a fan of how SWG did crafting in the distant past - in truth despite being 20~25 years ago, it was still the most comprehensive crafting system I’ve ever come across.

In a super simplified explanation, the raw materials all had attributes. Each week new spawns would appear with different attributes - this meant that one week you may have Berries with a super high nutritional value, and the next week they may be poor.

The component parts also had attributes - use high level raw materials and it’d increase the attributes. Those components ultimately made an end item.

You also had a limited number of experimentation points which introduced a certain amount of randomness. Each item would have a number of different areas that you could experiment in - so for food you could experiment in the duration of the buff, power of the buff and quantity of the food stack produced. Higher level crafters had more experimentation points and your gear could grant you an additional 2 points if maxed out.

Now where the real complexity came was that raw materials was basically like a game of top trumps. A power coil may need a non-ferrous metal and use the conductivity attribute - this meant copper was BiS, but you could use aluminium. It also means that no raw material was truly rubbish - items with really poor attributes were still super useful where you needed lots of filler ingredients.

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That does indeed sound interesting :slight_smile:
One could argue that NW’s current system with using lower tier materials to craft higher tier-materials is probably trying to solve the same problem they solved by requiring filler ingredients.

I have also been toying around with a more complex version of this, which is in fact a simplified version of the system they use in a fictive game called glory. In that system you would omit the craft-modifiers, and then parts themselves could be made from far more materials. So if you wanted bleed, you would need to use a blade-part for your weapon which either has a jagged nature(jagged claw, flint-like material/glass) or has been explicitly crafted into a jagged shape even though it could have been made smooth(possible with metals). Doing so would probably make that weapon pierce less or cut less deep (due to energy lost when tearing open the wound). Similarily using parts made from materials with elemental properties is how you would add elemental damage or resistances, or special abilities like burn or freeze/slow to a weapon.
This in my head at least, feels like the RPG-variant of the attribute-system you described.

Something like that applied to NW would probably mean that you need to overhaul the entire loot-table, for everything. Which is no small feat :slight_smile: The above, dumbed down version, while still being a significant overhaul is still tempered so that it would be possible to use it in NW as is. Even though that too would be a significant amount of work :slight_smile:

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This is part of a “braindump” series:

problem is, they wanted a 600gs item with two selected perks to require, on average 250 HQ attempts.

3 perks, on average 12500 attempts

your system seems like it would take substantially less effort to achieve the same thing.

now maybe they should scrap that whole concept, but thats the main resource destruction and economic driver of the game. How would your system handle that?

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They would have to deal with the bots first. Competition for the standard mats is already hard enough. Now, in your suggestion, I might get lucky enough to get to the node before the bot train, but it might end up being trash. I like the idea overall though.

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I’ll admit to not having seen those numbers before :slight_smile:

The idea is to move that randomness to the parts. Since perks are no longer random, they would need to make it about 4200 attempts to get a part at 200 GS in order to get the same number of attempts for 3 parts.

Which I’ll admit is a bit excessive. But then again, I’d say the 12500 is an excessive number too…

The 600GS with 2 good perks and one wasted is trickier though, since my system deals in all or nothing once you reach 600 GS. So you’d probably have to imagine that the 599’s are the equivalent then and somehow set up the odds for parts to match.

That being said, I wonder if the average of attempted legendary crafts over the entire player-population has even reached 10 yet… (It’s probably above that if you only count currently active though I wonder if it’s above 100 even so)
So with 12500 to get the perfect gear-piece, one could argue that it is unattainable by the average player, no matter how long they play.

And while it would be possible to achieve that by nerfing the numbers for my system, I’ll willingly admit my system is based on things being more easily attainable. And being attainable bit by bit, since you can slowly build up your gear-piece as you go along.


As a sidenote, I saw in the last dev-video that they choose to introduce a whole new system with Umbral-shards so that the gear people had obtained wouldnt have to be replaced/lose value. That need can be argued is a direct result of how hard things are to get in the first place.

My system would just keep chugging along as they increased GS, both because of how it is built, and because of it’s level of attainability.

With the current system, I cant help but wonder how they are going to manage the first time the reach a GS-level where they can add a 4th perk. Will it be randomly selected when you upgrade that far? Will they add a new system to allow selecting it?
I cant help but feel that they have somewhat trapped themselves :slight_smile:

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A few quick points that jumped out at me. Your system actually seems more complicated rather than less. Overall you seem to want to take much of the randomness out of the system and replace it with “you could control everything” where you can essentially craft exactly what you want. While that sounds cool I think it destroys the economy. Part of what is driving the economy to the extent it is, is that all of those crafting materials from the low ones which feed into the higher tier material, all the way to the ones on cooldowns, are in high demand. As crude as it may feel the lower mats feeding into the higher ones is by design and it’s honestly not a bad one. Players of any level can essentially make money by providing them to the crafters.

If you make it too easy to craft what you want you’re essentially killing the goose that lays the eggs and additionally killing any desire for random drops from mobs or chest. There aren’t as many players as you think actively playing so everyone could have BIS in a very short time. At that point they would essentially have to move the bar further out by adding new perks, GS, weapons, and abilities just to give people something to do. You would effectively be accelerating that process further.

What needs to happen and it’s already been brought up by many others is a reduction in the variability of the attributes and perks. Not that you should be able to control them or that they are perfect every time but just remove or decrease the odds of some of the least desirable combinations. For example str combined with int. Con and every other attribute. Durability. Etc etc

This would make the items crafted and dropped much more likely to be useful rather than 99% being junk.

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True, it has an added layer of complexity due to the added step. It has an illusion of logic behind it though.

You would still need asmodeum to craft the good parts(discounting random drops and dismantlig dropped loot), so the way even basic resources are meaningful would remain unchanged.

As for your second point, yes that is indeed a possible drawback. And yes, it is possible I have misjudged the balance. To some extent you can adjust that by tinkering with the amount of material needed for the parts though.

As a personal preference I prefer high cost/high control vs low cost/low control, mostly because that way I can feel that I’m working towards something. It’s possible to see myself getting closer. A luck-based system doesnt really have that, so it risks devolving into frustration instead.

But yes, tinkering with the odds is definitly another way of solving the problem. And even though it also lacks the benefit of being able to see your progress, it would be far easier to add to the current system :slight_smile:

my number was approximations, let me be a bit more accurate, with the numbers and process.

the GS part isnt the hard part, with max gear, its about 1/5 attempts.

with timeless you can select an attribute, and a crafting mod you can select another.

so basically getting a pretty decent item is 1/5 attempts with the best items/mods etc.

but after that, its about 1/84 to select another perk you want for armor

this is for armor though, weapons are less random, and perk buckets involve the weapon.

so for a weapon its, 1/34 for any specific perk after timeless and crafting mod

for jewelry its 1/21

the system is a bit messy to say the least. adding perks makes it less likely to get anything specific.

basically the way its designed. they mostly expect people to only have 1 perk selected, unless they hunt or craft a named item. They expects some better versions would be there, with two or more specific perks, but they don’t care how hard to obtain they are. Armor used to be like 2% chance for a perk you want, but adding perks, and weapons lowered it.

its possible they plan to overhaul the system as it becomes more onerous. they already did alter things

that said the key point is

  1. they want people to waste many many materials in an effectively infinite pursuit of better gear.

the gathering system, crafting systems and economics systems depend on it.

so whatever it replaces it needs to consider that, or add some new infinite resource sinks.

so if you can come up with some new things that would use up materials, than maybe they can make a more attainable system.

its also possible that they don’t really want people to have all those perks, or rather the game isnt balanced expecting people to have every perk they want

I actually properly hate the “Pyramid Scheme” that NW uses, being forced to farm a bajillion items to craft one higher tier ingot as one example just pisses me off.
Working on crafting, the last thing that was interesting in the game to me is actually making me want to quit.

Great series you have here! I’d lay my thoughts as an intermediate crafter. (I’m 200 on a few but 140++ still on others for context)

I think we need to dive right into the crux of the matter: players aren’t feeling satisfied or rewarded with crafting an item, especially if it is a legendary.

I’d argue that NW has actually one of the better foundation crafting system in an MMO. Time gating a legendary resource or having multiple interdependencies between crafting and refining is not exactly anything new but where NW has gone wrong is where the exp gained for each item is not proportionate to its level and there’s too much rng upon rng with resource gathering, refining and gathering.

Think about crafting irl. While practice does make it perfect, the sheer number of swords crafted would mean that the blacksmith has at least a basic understanding of crafting it, even with new resources. I’d say that the bs should be gated not through his efforts but through materials gained.

So it’s understandable for a new BS to smith 1000 iron swords but after gaining exp, why would he still need 1000 steel swords? Or starmetal? Or ori? Yes it would take years for a bs to craft a legendary item, but there isn’t even a feeling of satisfaction to it simply because the crafting itself is not rewarded.

My idea would be to -

  1. increase the exp gained for higher level items significantly.

  2. decrease drop rate of legendary materials.

  3. allow extraction of components from items, done over at the respective crafting stations.

  4. allow full customization of epic to legendary items, from name or a collection of names to stats.

  5. ability to upgrade your components up to legendary level.

I like the idea of recipes involving pieces of a legendary weapon, since this ties in really well with the current weapon quests we have. I’d say to let these recipes be dropped only in elite Poi’s, Expeditions and OPRs. ( open world, pve and pvp respectively).

@PhysOmega Yes, we would need to consume materials. And just plainly increasing the cost might not be enough… You could probably motivate requiring materials for the disassembly process the first time you disassemble something unknown, in which case you would have people dropping a lot of material on “opening up” dropped loot, just to see if there is any part in there that ended up being max GS for that and thus worth picking out. And likewise consume materials for the actual process of extracting or replacing things.

As for the last point, I’ll admit its not a thought that struck me, but yes, that would definitly conflict with my system :slight_smile:

@Skuz_Bukit It is a bit counter-intuitive, but it does the economy a lot of good. Especially if they can get rid of the bots.

@ravensworn I can see you point about experience, but I can also concede that leveling needs to take time, and that is a very simple way for it to be achieved.

When you are talking about upgrading components to legendary, are you talking about the parts of a gear-piece, or craft-mods and the like?

“It is a bit counter-intuitive, but it does the economy a lot of good. Especially if they can get rid of the bots.”

The design seems to encourage bots too much tbh

Hmm. Any kind of mindless or semi-mindless farming can be considered encouraging bots.
And while that thought sparks some interesting ideas in and of itself, that’s a braindump or two on it’s own I think.

I do think NW has more of that kind of farming than some other games, true, but the concept isnt different.
That said, randomized nodes would probably make botting harder, even if everything else is unchanged. But that might also make efficient farming harder by players, and thus increase the value of resources and thus the value of bots, so the net-gain might be very small…

I like the sound of randomized nodes, with the caveat that less actual volumes of resources are required if nodes are randomized.
It would make farming a little less monotonous & a bit more taxing on the bots, though I expect that they would find ways around it eventually.

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True, lowering the actual requirements would solve the issue with players being less effective too.

Or you could leave them high, and just use the increased effort to get resources to offset the problems that @PhysOmega pointed out with my new crafting-systems resource requirements.

In that case, the restructured crafting system would essentially mean that less resources are needed to get from point A to point B, rather than having the actual craft-prices modified.

The more I think about it, the more I like it :slight_smile:

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