That’s not what I was doing so I definitely don’t appreciate the dismissive tone here. I was unclear what you were saying because the way you first wrote it didn’t make sense. Regardless you answered my question.
I had a longer reply written out but had issue with the internet so it didn’t post. I’ll just summarize what I had written and say I don’t think light armor was ever the issue. It was rapier and the crazy access to move speed. In fact those with that access to move speed still aren’t getting locked down. - Also shirking energy and other crazy amounts of access to free stamina, which is mostly still in tact for a lot of builds.
Zepher cakes are also something people overlook. I feel forced to use them in OPR now because it’s the only thing that gets me out of the ‘oh a melee touched you, you never get to move again bs’. But people were always using those and it’s one of the big contributors to everyone’s perception that light was untouchable. In arenas, this dodge translation is fucking rough though.
Also I have to wonder, why did they even apply this reduced dodge transition the same exact to medium armor if light armor was the problem. who ever complained they couldn’t catch a medium user? I know who, the heavy armor sword/shield DEVS who think they should be able to catch and lock down everyone and “smash” them.
-ok well I guess I mostly rewrote my original comment.
This is such sh… show that ppl just go heavy 300 con ss builds. Hide behind shield, close distane and leaping strike + LMB spam and this actualy does work!
Amazing. Worst dev team ever. They just not f… up all light buids, they added stupid op weapon to the game and retrarded mechanic that allows to win by just clicking LBM. Hollly f… how this ppl are not fired from their jobs yet? You cant afford ppl that actualy know what they are doing amazon?
That wasn’t aimed at you, sorry it came off that way. I could have wrote it differently.
I see a lot of light players talk about this like it’s a new thing. I have played in all weight classes but heavy and medium the most. The slow after hit has always been there. It was worse! As heavy, if I got touched I absolutely could not get away. I win the fight or I die. 1.75s before I could move at full speed. In light you just dodge and the distance covered made it so you didn’t even notice that you were slowed. But everyone else felt this, especially heavy. Now light feels it too because the dodge distance is effected. Except it’s only 1.5s, so less and the dodge distance is still more than anyone else but this is unfair? It’s ruining light? It’s ruining PvP? Nah. This reminds me of when they changed how stamina recovery worked and everyone claimed it would be the end of PvP.
I’ve said this to someone else too but I disagree that light was balanced before. Maybe relative to itself in a vacuum but not when compared to the other armor classes. There’s a reason the majority of players in OPR/arenas are in light. When one weight class outshines the others in damage, mobility and healing, and the only downside is damage mitigation but it’s nullified by the shirking fortification perk which is made even stronger by the shirking energy perk that is EXCLUSIVE to it (light)… That is not balanced.
I’m not saying the change to light was 100% the right thing to do or that it’s balanced now. I think it may have been the right direction but maybe too extreme. I’m not sure. But I also think the other armor classes could have been improved in some way instead… or maybe a mix of the two. Maybe the dodge distance didn’t need to be reduced as much. I don’t know. Heavy definitely feels better. The difference in medium isn’t as drastic as light and medium.
For heavy fact that he cant move much does not meaing anything. For light it means you die. And also as you said for light its x3 more than for heavy. And ofc its unfair. Mele have tools to keep range light builds in place while range build do not have tools to do the same to mele?
And yes it was here before patch but it wasnt big deal (except you get jump by GA/Hatchert or GA/SS) couse you had long light armor dodge. Now you dont. It was nerfed and its super close dodge if you got git by mele. So you are not only slowed, you also cand dodge out of range of any mele weapon. Even with 2 dodges you cant do s… couse most mele builds have movment skills so will jump again on you.
If you want mele to be able to kill range after they close gap then we need to increase dmg on all range builds x2 on musket, x2 on bow and x4 on mage weapons. How about that? If you manage not to die on your run to range you kill, but you will die if you cant dodge atacks.
Agree take away all melee homing, but also REMOVE the root that melee users have when using LMB allowing them to maintain directional momentum while swinging. Heavy attacks should still lunge a specified distance; however, they should not “home”
Yes it was always there, but as you mentioned, you would be able to create distance again by dodging after taking a few hits. Now you can’t. Ranged has to be able to regain distance, or the fight just plain isn’t fair. Now if you get hit, not only are you walking slow, but now you are trapped within lunge range so you just keep taking hits and it keeps applying the dodge reduction/slow over and over. Sword/Greatsword/Rapier/Hatchet all of these weapons have fast enough attacks to permanently lock you within range with the new dodge - again I want to mention this is also an issue with medium not just light.
Yes it’s unfair because you are literally still within reach of light/heavy attacks even after a DOUBLE light roll with this slow on you.
For me, every time I go back to light from medium I think “wow I forgot how much more fun the game feels with rolling instead of hopping”.
This is the exact opposite for melee. They have to be able to get in range or the fight just isn’t fair. Being engaged from a distance as melee sucks when you have to find them then get to them or find a place to hide but they have you dead in 3 or 4 shots.
Just a reminder that I’m not defending the change, just the opinion that light was overtuned compared to the other armor classes pre 1.7. That and offering some perspective to be considered.
Yeah that’s pretty fair. I kinda wish the dodges in new world we’re similar to elden ring where everyone dodge rolled but just differently.
Every time you reply to me it’s like you’re referring to something I didn’t say.
I never said that.
I have not been talking about melee vs range. I have only been discussing the balance of the light equip load relative to the others.
I’m not defending the light armor change.
Still… I haven’t been talking about range vs melee and this comment is so out there that it honestly doesn’t deserve a response. Melee is strong in melee range and weak at range. Ranged weapons are strong at range and weaker in melee range. Of course I’d expect melee to be more effective against a ranged player when the gap gets closed. Just as I expect range to be most effective at a distance.
All of my discussions on this have all been just that. A discussion. I state my opinion and offer perspective. I’m not arguing or telling anyone they are explicitly wrong, just that I disagree and here’s why. Your replies all come off argumentative about things I never even said.
Light vs medium vs heavy was balanced well before. Only issue was mobility that was coming from OP shirking perk and dex builds.
In light you need mobility to not die, while in med and heavy you way more tanky. There is reason ppl do not run light armor on wars.
Heavy is not played outside wars not couse light armor is so much better. Simple reason is that you dont need it couse devs cant balance stuff around it like stupid fortify - now we have like 100+ sources of fortfiy.
So if you can be tanky in medium almost like in heavy and in light almost like in medium couse devs have no idea what they are doing, why any1 would use heavy anywhere outside war?
So instead fixing issue and nerfing all fortify sources + reworking how it does work in general, they decide to nerf light armor. You know what? I wont make heavy any better. Ppl will still chose medium over it for all none war use cases.
And topic is about stupid mele slow + dodge reduction. Why mele users got this while range got nothing of this type? Why mele user should have tool to keep range build from running away, while range cant have tool to prevent mele from closiing distance?
Lets change all autoattacks:
musket - you got hit, you get slowed by 5% stacks up x10
blow - you got hit, you get slowed by 10% stacks up x5
mage weapons - you got hit, you get slowed by 15% stacks up to 3x
And lets see how skilled mele are if W wont be enough to close distance?
Melees have a lot of abilties and passives to get in/get away, and they can IFRAME all your mage attacks so, so easily. So they make your abilities useless while they get closer and closer. And they don’t need to be good. Iframing “leaping strike” is difficult. Iframing fireball or pillar is easy and could be done by a 6 years old kid. It’s so funny when melees says: “but you can attack from range”. Yeah, we can hit hopefully 1-2 light attacks before you get in range, and not because we fail, just because you can easily press shift and avoid all damage.
That was always a problem, but at least we would be able to get away after getting caught (because after attacking we’re slowed, so its easy to get on us). Now we can’t do anything. We can’t attack on range, we can’t run away. We’re just useless.
This. This is whole issue and reason mage is dead build in small scale combat vs mele users (can outplay some slow mele like WH, but in general its dead).
Before light dodge nerf it was issue if you had ga/hatchet or ga/ss or ss/hatchet jumping on you. Issue was lof of gap closure/movment and LMB spam coming from ss or hatchet. AS a mage you coudnt get out of range if other player didnt mess up something. He was constalty jumping back on you and slowing down with LMB. But it was not unplayable.
Right now we have same crap, just with addition of GS and now we cant even try to get out of mele range.
And it was all balancing needed. any1 who does play a lof of pvp content knows that. But here we are. Devs dont play own game and do not listen players feedback from PTR, so every patch they overbuff something or overnerf something. And best is they cant address reason behind issues in most cases.
I think this is mainly an issue with how mage works. It should be a mid-range class with ranged abilities, but pillar just straight up blows, burnout takes 3 seconds to wind up and another second once you land (why?), meteor shower is… is bad even the right word? awful?.. and incinerate can be dodged by even the most brainless zergling. So you kinda have to take flame thrower which makes you stand in melee to do most of your damage, or take pillar and not really do anything with it. Pillar probably just needs a rework completely cause aiming it sucks, hitting it feels even worse cause it does nothing for the skill shot it requires, and spending any perk slots for the perk feels like a sick joke.
Similarly, IG ALSO makes you play close right now, mainly because fire staff feels bad. I think like most ranged classes, its not wrong to have IG be a versatile weapon that does really well at zoning and/or running if you are losing, or locking people down if you are winning. But people take ice spike because FS doesn’t play properly so they rely on spike to do most of their damage and net kills. Realistically, ice spike should be a risk/reward option where you gain fat extra damage but lose defensiveness because you drop storm or shower. But right now, its almost mandatory as a mage, so mage loses the most with the light armor nerfs not because of the nerf per se, but because FS doesn’t let people play right so it FEELS like its the nerfs that made everything bad.
I main a light armor melee build and have for a long time, and I definitely die more with the changes, but I chose to be light armor because I like the risk/reward that comes with it. If I wanted, I could switch to medium and still do a lot of damage and win a lot. But mages seem to be locked in light to really do any reasonable damage and the fact that they have to get in close as well makes it feel really bad.
Currently as a light mage you are either forced to play in melee range for any kill pressure (and do it flawlessly or you are dead) or just switch to medium IG/VG and become a melee enhancer. It’s sad but prehaps when they fix Ultimate Chill we will have damage to compensate a bit.
They should re-introduce stagger while at it. Back then you had to commit to your engages and there was this whole mind game battle versus others where you’d bate each other into getting hit. Now you don’t have to think much and can just unga bunga left click.
