Spear Feedback / Sweep and Coup de Grace

Coup de Grace makes your spear attack during the Sweep animation becomes a downward stab on the ground which deals 125% weapon damage.

Heres the catch, it (Coup the grace) actually decreases your attack range (by about half) and also frozen/stuns you in place in order to hit 125%. (IF you miss Sweep hiting light attack you stun yourself for free)
Without this talent i can actually hit 2 light attacks with max melee range in the same window of a single Coup de Grace animation.

Sorry about my english but this talent is mathmatically worse in all scenarios.

This talent is legit a downgrade, because you can do 200% damage in the same window instead of 125% (plus 25% talented)
(2 light attacks with talents which rewards for them, instead of 125% shorter attack that frozes you, 150% if you spend 2 talents in it)

Suggestion for Coup de Grace improvement.

1- Make it count as a light attack in all forms (benefit from all talents which benefits light attacks and also being part of regular 2 hit combo)
2- The animation time/window to Coup de Grace should be EXACTLY the same as a regular light attack

7 Likes

I main spear and can confirm that more dmg is dealt doing 2 light attacks than doing this skill. I only use it for the knock down.

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I only talent sweep and GRIT effect, Coup de Grace decreases your efficiency in all aspects.

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On top of this at times it leaps forward to connect with the swept target and most times i just hop in place.

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Yes, thats why i’ll never talent this perk until they change it lol

I wish they’d change the bleeding sweep perk to not require this talent.

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Yea that’s a real shame as it’s a cool looking ability lol.

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I find it very sad that this topic is not as popular as it should be, this issue is quite relevant to the performance of one of the few classes in the game (spear) and also to one of the only two melee weapons that represent dexterity

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BTW, does anyone know if the Perk is % Weapon damage per second for 4 seconds (like Skewer)… or % Weapon damage for 4 seconds (like Rain of Arrows)?

The wording suggests the latter, but you never know with these descriptions.

Yeah coup as it is right now is completely trash and not worth taking for any scenario at all. With how much it keeps you locked down and how long it takes. It either needs sped up if its going to stay 125%, or it needs to honestly do more dmg. I mean i can either do two light attacks, or a perforate, which both do much more dmg then coup lmao.

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Its not good perforate after a sweep, most of the times 1 of the 3 hits won’t land. I keep my perforate in the moment that enemy will start an attack (then im sure all of them will land)

Even two hits of perforate still does more dmg then coup, as well as applying two stacks of rend. I agree with what you are saying. I was just stating, even using that is better then using coup lol.

Yes, all choices are better than coup in the best scenario which you actually land Coup… because if you miss… my boy, you basically stunning yourself which means you are dead most of the times

Current Coup hits for 125%, i think even if it does 200% i would NOT pick this perk.

If coup carried the grit from sweep and did 200% then it might be worth lol

i rather 2 light attacks (benefit from CD reduction) instead and not risk moments when I can miss coup and get locked in place, even if it was 200%.

I’m going to described “fixed coup” and “what coup needs to be more viable than light/heavies.” These are two separate problems. One is the fact that Coup is a net loss in it’s current state, and it needs to be brought up to “as good as if you didn’t take the talent.” The other is “now we need to actually add a talent”

Fixed coup would:

  • 1 always connects
  • 2 have the same potential to hit multiple targets that two lights and/or one heavy attack
  • 3 leaves you less open to attack
  • 4 does enough damage to be worthwhile

Problems 1-3 are pretty easy fixes conceptually (though coding wise it might be harder). Some ways of doing it is 1 make it leap farther, 2 make sure it still has some AoE to match a heavy attack, 3 it’s executed swiftly, 4: see below

More damage isn’t enough on it’s own, unless the we got to some possibly unfeasibly high damage numbers (250%+) to outweigh the cost of missing out on heavy/light boosting talents. In addition to an increasing the damage to 160-200% here are way to make it -equal- to just light/heavy attacks.:

  • make coup count as a heavy attack for talent purposes (grant fortify, keep your consecutive heavy attack bonus, cooldown reduction). Fits the zoner tree heavy attack aesthetic.
  • make both sweep and coup count as light attacks, so they count as a light attack chain. Since a lot of players ignore heavy attacks.
  • add both effects together, where’s coup is both a light attack combo finisher -and- a heavy attack, note: you might need to add diminishing returns on CDR, or just make the highest bonus count. This option allows coup to have the lowest base damage increase (180% total would be my guess) and would need the least amount of “worthwhile” additions detailed below.

Remember, you have to give up the flexibility of choosing to light -or- heavy as long as coup relies on pressing the LMB.

All of these things “fix coup” by bringing it in line with the choice to heavy, double light, or dodge light. They do not “make coup worthwhile”

To make coup worthwhile after it’s “fixed” coup would still need one of these to justify the usage of a talent point:

  • significantly more damage to justify it’s slot (+25-75% over it’s “fixed” state, based on just how good counting as a heavy and/or light attack chain works)

  • an alternate status effect, such as disease. If it’s disease, rebrand the ability “Salt the Wound.”

Note: with how potentially powerful disease is in PvP, it’d be tempting to cut back too far in the “fixed” section of this post to allow disease, pushing coup back to being objectively worse in PvE, while mandatory for PvP, and that’d be a bad feel. A comprise could be that Coup triggers from pressing the ability keybind again, rather than LMB, so you could choose to disease with coup, or light/heavy and ignore this talent.

Or, just remove coup entirely, Replace it with some other effect. Rip a cool animation. While you’re at it, does sweep need grit? I don’t run that either, the knockdown CC does the work of Grit, so it’s really just a wasted filler talent. Grit is a trap.
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Tbh Sweep is so good you could just remove both upgrades and it’d be fine.

P.S. if you do remove Coup from sweep, it’d be hilarious to add it to javelin and increase the range to like 15m after hitting a target (make sure coup only activates by pressing the javelin keybind again, NOT LMB) Balanced? Probably not, but dammmmnnnnnn it’d feel good. Just make sure you no-clip when you’re flying, or people are going to use it to exploit up walls.

Or add it as an April 1st patch for one day.

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