When I play OPR or Arenas I see always the same names and I know those who are premade, those that are skilled players and etc.
In my case is the same. Almost every OPR ends with a big difference of points even if there are some exceptions. But is not fun win or lose like this.
Yesterday I did some Arenas solo and it matched me against a premade of 3 during 3 times consecutive. They destroyed us and it was not fun. Why? Because is unfair.
AGS should have statistics and know what is happening. They have feedback also from players. So I’m pretty sure they could do something to make pvp fun.
The problem is that is taking too long and whoever plays this game because likes to do pvp sooner or later stops playing because a mix of different reasons.
I definitely agree with points 2 and 3. I don’t have a problem with skill or experience gap. Not that big of an issue to me. But the team balance issue is big. I was playing a couple of OPR’s where we didn’t have enough melee to take a point. I would go in and no one would follow me. There were no other melee to come in. I remember dying on point and looking at the door and there were 12 people shooting through the door but no other melee coming in. That’s an automatic loss right there and feels terrible.
You can disagree with point 1 but don’t really know why you would when it’s part of the problem? Maybe your server isn’t as bad, but teams can 100 percent be completely stacked vs just causal gymsum farmers. Teams need to be balanced by skill as well.
The skill gap can solve itself to a large extent with more experience. If people play OPR enough the skill gap will lessen. But team balance issue is atrocious. There are just some builds that are going to put up much better numbers but contribute much less to a team victory. You can stay on a bow and spam big number and do nothing to help your team win. And you need some ranged on a team but probably 3-5 players instead of 10-12.
The game seriously needs to add cross server (to start) OPR and Expeditions (including mutations) like yesterday. I know they said they are going to start with OPR but this needs in now and Expeditions better not be too long after as that is dying just as fast.
Unfortunately I don’t see any fair solution to rate players. If it were by OPR scoreboards in an asmosdeum OPR there would be bows and muskets only plus some 5 con AoE healers. Iron OPRs would be tanks and support only.
Even just based on win ratio - you can try to ballance teams. But good vs top vs bad players it not main reason. Main reason we see stomp games are premades and healers. Premade is 5 man out of 16-20 in team. It a bug chunk. So if that premade is top quality and other team does not have same or close quality premade its already gg. On top of having coordination between 5 players, they bring composition: bruisers, healers and dpses. So if on other side you get 5 archers its already game over.
Rating systems have been developed and used to great effect in many games. I don’t think we need to come up with new ways for AGS to develop one, if I’m honest. A well designed individual rating system (that is still impacted when you do well in a pre-formed group, obviously) along with cross-server would breath a ton of life into the game mode. If it works, it would draw more players into the mode because they’d at least get to start on the bottom rung, knowing they’re playing mostly players on that same rung; most importantly, they’ll know they’re not going to ever get matched against the “haves” unless they’re good enough.
How they design the rating system isn’t something we need to argue at all. Or, whether it’s possible. Of course it is. I’ve got all sorts of ideas about it but I’m not going to bother sharing because I’m not nearly an expert on the design of rating systems. I just know it can be done.
I mean… if AGS are really struggling they can just lerverage ChatGPT
Why are we saying things like “I don’t see any fair solution to rate players”? What do you mean? Of course there is! Don’t let the current OPR’s extremely bad scoring system mislead you into that really vague and unhelpful conclusion. Even a player-to-player based ELO system based on deaths (and who was involved with the kill, including any healing going on) would be more than enough to separate the pre-made sweats and everyone else, within a single week of play. If I get murdered by a group of players 5 times in a match and I don’t rate in any of their deaths (if they have any) then I probably shouldn’t be playing against them, nor with them, very much; if any one of that group then goes to play solo and face me and I murder them instead… they should lose points and be drawn more often against me if they’re solo (but not if they are grouped on queue). And then, if they only play in a group, they’ll get sifted into matches against others like them (which is ultimately what they should want anyway; this is what I want if I roll in a group) and they’ll eventually be sifted up or down based on how good they are against each other.
I’ve already gone into way too much detail on this. I’m no expert. But I know AGS could create a way to measure ratings in OPR so that you should be matched against and with players who do as well as you do comparatively. And then if you end up mismatched, well the system will work that out soon enough. Eventually, more players would join knowing they will not get pitched against the “haves”, as put here, at all. Unless they are one. And then they can work their way up the ranks pretty quickly, won’t they?
It can be done. Just meekly stating that you can’t see a way doesn’t change that.
You’re right, bad wording. Of course it is possible to create good rating systems. I’m just way less optimistic than you in AGS accomplishing it. I am not an expert as well but yes I am (mis)led into that conclusion by the current OPR scoring system which has been reworked several times and is still catering statpadding and ignoring roles like tanks or support. Or OPR leaderboard that rewards the plain amount of wins.
But again you’re right, it was just raising concerns and not helpful in any way.
Sorry, if you phrase it “I doubt AGS can achieve it” then I can’t find fault with that in particular
That probably felt like it was directed only at you but it wasn’t. I see a lot of “it can’t be done” or long arguments about how it should be done (and not just related to this topic). I think some people like to take the “constructive” part of criticism as some mandate that we, the consumers, should never provide criticism without also providing a critically acclaimed solution as well.
It’s ok for us to just ask for something to change. In this case, asking for a solid player rating system in OPR (on top of getting cross server so that would have a chance of working) is OK. We shouldn’t need to provide the exact blueprint to that suggestion. That’s not our job.
If I ask for a rating system because I think that would enhance OPR a ton and get more players participating and someone asks me “yeh but how do AGS do that?”, then they haven’t argued against my suggestion, they’re just asking me to do AGS’s job. You didn’t do this, you’re just saying you don’t think they can achieve such a system and I might agree with that. But we should still be pushing for it because I don’t think anyone can argue against the premise that it would make the mode more inviting for more players, if done well.
My company ran an OPR event last night, which generally draws people out that don’t typically PvP. Unfortunately it was a small turnout given the state of the game, but needless to say those that did were discouraged and likely won’t play again.
There were at least 2 pre-mades of good players that led to fort camps aand 1000-100 scores. Typically you can at least make it “competitive” by back capping, but they decided to be as toxic as possible. Most of them never run musket, but one of their groups were running 3 muskets + pocket and lasering anyone that tried to back cap. The others were your typical OPR meta comps with 1 or 2 pockets. OP pretty sure you were in those games and know who I’m referring to. And don’t get me wrong, I’ve been on the “winning” side of those curbstomps as much as the losing side and it’s equally unfun.
Now, I’m of the opinion anyone can run whatever they have fun with, it’s a game - but a little self awareness goes a long way. These guys can win an OPR and top leaderboards in their normal comps, but chose to be assholes. Everyone in my company that played said they were done after two straight games like that, and won’t be playing OPR anymore.
Not absolving AGS at all for creating this cesspool, but people choosing to dive in doesn’t help.
Castle OPR takes a lot of patience as solo queue. Repeatedly farmed by sweaty premades or dream team dex assisters.
I still play every night, I enjoy punking the sweats when they peel off their safety ball and take a 1v1. But for every 1 time that happens, I’m eaten by the ball 2-3. Most people won’t stomach that for long.
Seriously. My new favorite hobby is just following behind the enemy pre-made and pick off their dex/healers. It’s a also a major win if you can get the zerg to chase you in a wrong direction (especially 5+ people), which sets up numbers advantages on other points for your team. I like to keep running from the zerg until its only 2-3 people, and then kill them all, and summarily roll around on their corpses (elegant t-bag). I’ve literally had 5+ people jump off the cliff by the fort just to chase me around the map haha. Sometimes I like to really demoralize them and just start farming wood/ore while they are trying to kill me.
You can beat pre-mades (or at least make their game miserable), by back-capping, targeting their Mortal empowerment dex, harassing healers, and going for marathon sprints around the map. Ideally though, you need to split them up into 2-3 groups, rather than a singular zerg.
