how have you not been banned yet?
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Riposte is the only ability that make Rapier a viable weapon.
Plus you can trigger rapier Riposte and i-frame dodge the following stun. You can also 180° to prevent triggering rapier.
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Rapier is totally fine. It needs skill to escape with it. Nerfing it would kill it totally.
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Rapier does provide too much risk-free stamina regen for dodge spamming, just make riposte halt stamina regen exactly like holding block with any weapon does and increase cd of evade.
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Agree with most of the points OP made.
I often find myself ignoring rapier user knowing it’ll most likely be a 30s chase for no result.
That said, i wouldn’t add everything.
So wich ones would i choose ?
Cooldown
Yes, probably what i find the most frustrating with immunity frames. Especially with the rest of the toolkit (Dodge/Evade like the 9sec example from OP). Also consider other cooldown skills, refreshing & refreshing dodge, and the existence or refreshing move and it’s frightening.
20s would stay strong, 30s idk. While engaged in a 1v1, 20s could still be super usefull and strong, while in more scenario in OPR (dont know about wars lately), people would start to find kill window 2v1 or 3v1. Would still require a good amount of chasing / cc.
Immunity WAY too long (riposte active & counter stab)
Either adds a delay before it activates, but keep the cancel dodge after the animation so you dont end up too easy to catch.
Or do what OP said, add a way to punish riposte if played around correctly.
We probably dont need both.
Block dmg
Yes
Area of Effect smaller
Well, mostly prevent it to stun 360° in melee and i’m fine with an actual 180° in front of him.
Ranged trigger
Not sure about this one. Makes sense, but that would really make riposte super underwhelming, especially if implemented with everything else.
If you use Riposte against a glacial spike, or a ranged attack to stun a melee that is sticking to you, it seems fair to me that it still is pretty strong with good timing (aka hard to prevent or dodge). And you have 20 sec or more without it with said nerf, not just 10.
If you trigger the riposte yourself and have stamina, you can still dodge the counter stab sleep as melee (no, i dont want to call those stuns).
I’d probably not implement the ranged nerf, even if arguments made sense.
<3
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All fair points actually (I’m Bow/Rapier main, still) and I agree about the cooldown issue.
However, we’re talking about Rapier’s ability to disengage 1vX situations, in which it’s unbeatable and frankly, with all the CC and root in the current meta, very necessary.
Talking about actual combat though, it’s not as op as people make it out to be. Riposte can be baited and dodged easily if you just stop spamming mouse 1 blindly. The damage output is not really dangerous either (except sundering riposte > heavy attack).
All in all I agree with OPs approach tho: I’d suggest cooldown tweaks on evade and riposte. Other than that, I’d be sad to see this games last mobile weapon get clunked up as well. To everyone being frustrated vs Rapiers: Practice iframing riposte and stop chasing for too long as melee, you’ll notice the difference. A lot of mediocre players just spam riposte after being hit once - so it’s easy to bait. However, currently with 10s cooldown it’s hard to follow up with enough CC/damage before riposte is up again.
Last thought: Without rapier the current meta would be even worse imo. I stopped counting how many VG screamo roots/IG ice spikes I have survived because of this ability - these days a lot of “good” players keep creeping up from behind and spam root > spike. Might change when new patch is live, but (as we saw in the patch notes) it seems that VG is not getting touched at all. Idk about you guys, but riposting screamo spammers has been my main occupation in Outpost Rush (before last patch killed OPR). Without this counter I would’ve lost my sh*t already, flaming every VG (ab)user.
Overall, in my opinion, the rapier is very easy to use but also has a high skill cap (reaction wise). In good players hands, Rapier can seem broken af in its current state. I wouldn’t say the weapon makes everyone automatically OP tho.
And also don’t forget: there are builds that do 5-6 CC chains (if they all connect) in which the other players literally can’t do ANYTHING while one CC after the next gets unloaded. In my experience, it’s those CC spammers that cry the loudest over 1 quick counter stun.
But I agree on cooldowns and stun area/radius.
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You know what would be a simple fix to these? Revert the buff on Rapier, put it back to 20s cd again, people hardly complained about this when it was on a 20s cd and rework blood tree cos it’s genuinely bad, not fun and mediocre in its utility and dps. The counter to rapier back then was to simply dodge if you proc’d Riposte but because the cd is absurdly short now (up to 8s with cd reduction perks) people just started using it as a crutch for bad play, and this is coming from someone who mains Rapier with IG or FS.
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Yup this is how it should’ve been done. I play rapier as well and I honestly don’t know why they reduced the CD on rapier. Revert the CD change on rapier and look at evade, maybe remove the stamina regen on use? or a higher CD? idk i play rapier but I play it offensively and not just for kiting.
Also the blood tree needs some love. Please change it
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Thank you for the honest, thoughtful response. Your arguments are reasonable.
Increasing the CD on riposte to 20-25 seconds or so is enough for me. All I want is a window to do damage between the riposte CDs. This also gives more room for punishing misplays by the rapier user, because he can’t use the “get out of jail free card” that is riposte every time he messes up
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I agree that VG has the single strongest ability in the game right now, Petrifying Scream. I intend to do a long form on that weapon as well. This post would have been too lengthy to include everything wrong with the current meta.
I agree with several of the responses about the cool down being the main issue. I don’t think rapier should suffer each of my suggestions, but I think each suggestion individually could help solve the power level of the ability.
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In my server healer dont get war invite without rapier…
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So true.
Just increase CD to 15sec or 18sec (pre-buff value). Everything else should stay as it is. Rapier is one of the more balanced weapons, imo. It has clear strengths and weaknesses.
rapier right side tree is far too strong however ags is heavy handed with its ‘balance’ changes so if they do touch it they could easily render the weapon quite bad, id rather the left side tree bleeds be increased in power substantially so that individuals using a rapier are more incentivised to use the left tree
obviously that wont change the fact that every 10s you are invincible + have a 360 aoe stun + rend(with perk), and every 5 sec have an invincible frame to dodge important attacks from enemy players (like shockwave or gravity well or scream ect) which all have magnitudes longer cooldown allowing you to potentially dodge every melee cooldown (with the ability to easily retaliate) coming your way if their activation gets staggered by even a few seconds, its pretty busted
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comparing this games mechanics to league of legends… not viable
you act like rapier is a god mode weapon with no faults but it has plenty of faults of which you refuse to talk about.
Rapier is a high mobility weapon with little to no AOE cleave and only 1 reactive stun that frustrates you for some reason. Theres no range abilities, no on demand stun or stagger abilities (flurry hits 5 times before the final hit staggers, very easy to react to) and if you take any points in the damage tree, you get destroyed trying to use them since they have no grit, and very little tracking and range. You are complaining about a very viable option for players that make Rapier a support type weapon to try and survive.
players using light armor can always outrun medium and heavy. Blaming this on the rapier alone is just sad.
did you know you can trigger the rapier reposte and dodge the stun with certain abilities and light attacks? If you only swing heavies you might never find out, but Light attacks are almost never countered by decent players…
Just increase riposte cooldown. Everything else is fine… It is a stun that requires the user to time well, less so when you can do it so often. They definetly should be punished for misjudgement. As many have said the stun can still be dodged.
Your suggested changes are absurd and you’re giving off some major mad because bad energy.
Rapier needs a lot of changes to give it an actual purpose as a primary DPS weapon instead of simply an escape tool, but for the time being the rapier is a huge keystone that is keeping the game anywhere in the realm of balance. You are not supposed to be winning against ranged players on an open field, and you are not supposed to be out-dueling the duelist weapons. The only thing they should change for the time being is increasing Riposte’s cooldown but also making it so activating it guarantees you will be stunned. Your proposed changes would make Riposte more detrimental to the rapier user than their opponent 9 times out of 10. It’s already the case that you basically cannot stun a competent player with it ever, and like 1 out of 5 uses cause you to spaz out because an attack hit you at the very end of the animation. Before people learned to easily negate the counter-attack you had a point about the cooldown, but as it is (let alone if you made it far more dangerous and difficult to use) it needs to have a lowish CD.
The issue with strength and melee players is that they want to be strong where they aren’t supposed to be. You are and always have been kings of objective control, and that’s not going to change with the next patch. You are not supposed to also have even odds against other weapons off of objectives. Sure it sucks if your playstyle is lone wolf and your aesthetic is big axe wielder, but that’s the case in every game: sometimes you have to choose between how you want to play and what you want to play. If you want to be a strength user learn to love objective control and acting as a frontline, and if you want to be a duelist more than you want to swing a monstrous hammer then pick up a different weapon. You can even still be full melee with spear and rapier. A good one of those is very effective at dueling (though still at a disadvantage in open spaces as they should be) and has more capacity on point than a musket or bow user.
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My arguments aren’t absurd, they’re quite agreeable. Address them instead of making up an energy and attempting to insult me.