[Suggestion Thread] Armor Class Rework

Post suggestions below, here’s mine.

Heavy - Permanent Grit and DR on CC. 20% damage reduction, 10% Damage Absorption (reduction, as in do 20% less damage) 20% more stamina, 20% longer CC duration, 20% less outward healing.

Medium - keep it

Light - ignores 30% of damage absorption, 10% damage and 10% attack speed. (Arrow draw time, musket reload included) 10% CDR.

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Actually i think this topic needs a lot of conversation out side of just a few bonus suggestions. To be direct, the armor bonus system, damage reduction and so forth at some point will need a massive design pass (rework).

Going forward it would be ideal to just move away from the entire concept of armor bonus’s on the load, and shift them off to the perk system. There are many ways the conversion can be done, but the specific change that the armor types need is a closing of gaps between the armor types (so they are closer); Gems should be part of this conversation because in this rework, its likely that the gems themselves will need a change. Personally, i feel they are to strong and need reductions (ie provide less benefit) or an outright change(ie they change the mechanical operation).

Going forward with the bonus’s and armor
I think we have been looking at this issue of armor balance way to long so i have a few idea’s on how it could be approached. They are as follows

    1. Create a new perk system that provides a set bonus for each type of perk and make that bonus dependent on the armor type. This would look something like If you have light armor you get x bonus for each resilient stack, and another type of bonus for refreshing. For example, at 5/5 light armor you get refreshing moves, and we’d see the removal of that perk out of the perk system but added as part of the perk-set bonus. Each armor load (light, meidum, heavy) type can provide a similar but slightly different bonus.
    1. Rework the entire armor systep to provide bonus’s based on armor load (light, medium, heavy) + the primary attribute, or that is to say the highest attribute the player has at that time. These bonus’s will display on the pips on the attribute bar say every 25 or 75 stats and will provide a bonus for each peice in a specific armor load type. For example @ 75 int light grants x per piece bonus for light, y for medium and z for heavy. The result of this system would be a scope or “range” of Fighter, Mage, Healer, Rogue.

For example

Int Users using light armor are given a bonus for damage to maintain the traditional “glass cannon”, however, for a heavy load int user we’d see something like + elemental resist as the bonus, and a medium we’d see something like elemental critical / damage mage.

This means we’d come out with 3 types of base concepts of each type of class (fighter for strength, Dex for rogues, focus for healers, intellect for mages, and Con for general/all class).

This system would give validity to the str users using light armor as they would be something like a puglist, to a fighter, to a knight.

For dex we’d see something like

Monk, to rogue, to ninja.

For Int we’d see

Mage, to warlock, to death knight

For focus we’d see
Priest, to bard, to Cleric

Option 3
The last option iv been looking into is to change the perk system to apply perks only to specific armor types so that, in general heavy armor does not give a lot of damage buffs. This would help balance the distribution of classes from heavy across light to heavy loads.

Review
I guess this topic really just comes down to how the system designers really want to look at creating loose class design (make it yourself). As long as heavy armor provides higher resist but maintains equal or greater damage the distribution of classse will always favor heavy armor regardless of your attribute focus.

Its for this reason we know that we need to make changes to the math itself outright, which suggests the easiest (but not best) change would simply be to rework gems and armor systems.

My initial suggestion for the armor system as it stands right now
My suggestions are as follow currently

  • A massive rework and reduction of perks. We don’t need things like + x resist (strike, fire, etc) when we have things like Physical/elemental Adversion.

  • Crunching the armor types closer together. Lets be real, the rework to the armors native damage reduction was a step in the right direction but it was not enough. For this reason the base resists should closer. Something like

    • Light: 30% Damage reduction base
    • Medium: 32% Damage reduction base
    • Heavy: 36% Damage reduction base
  • Gems should get massive reworks and reductions in power. Having “all resist gems” is really defeating the purpose of risk/reward in armor design. If we are going to have them we should look at removing onyx, opal, etc and leaving only Diamond as a general “all resist” gems. The others can be converted into some other mechanic for armor. Diamons should provide no more then 0.5% Damage bonus for each gem, and specific gems should provide 3% Each (at prestine). This will shift lots of focus off gems, since gems make up around half (or close to) the current damage reduction players have. This change will add a specific type of unpredictablity to the game which will allow for a lot of “oh, that class is my counter because i have these gems” type of feel as opposed ot just standing all resist and jumping in and never dying.

  • Lastly, Fortifying effects need to be yeeted from all classes except tanks (currently sword/hatchet). Tank abilities like leadership or defensive stance should be change in a way that they provide fortifying aftering blocking etc or to allies within 20-25m. This will help tanks in wars, and keep them at a current level of damage reduction. Fortifying effects should also not be transitory in nature (ie expire after weapon swaps). This change is important becuase it makes up lots of damage reduction in the game which is causing large amounts of damage reduction to classes that don’t need it or are broken with it.

This is how i feel about the topic. I am not sure how ags would look change it but at some point i am certain they will have to redesign it all.

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What if you did it like Diablo and had bonuses at 2/3 and 5. Obviously 5 being the biggest one, but you can mix and match each set, 2 medium for certain perk, 3 heavy for certain perk to allow mix matches and flexibility.

This is the definition of depth that New World needs.

You are obviously experienced and have thought about this a lot. I think the system laid out is great. I applaud you. :clap::clap::clap:

Bump this comment.

I have been a senior systems designer (people often know it as a class designer although we do more) for the wow team for over a decade.

My intent here is to offer the system designers on the ags team options. These are all very work intensive; The least of them is simply just removing the bonus’s from the load part of the gUI/bonus system and shifting them onto “pips” on the attribute bar (displaying armor bonus’s when scrolling over armor pips marked yellow below)

It’d look something like this
Low Fidelity Mockup

High Fidelity Mockup

In this example, the bonus options for armor would be based on the attribute. It could for example also scale with attributes; to be clear, 75 intellect could give 0.25% bonus elemental damage with each light piece, where as 275 could give 2%.

Alternatively (if we wanted to make more then a single armor pip) we could look at additional bonus’s like

75 - damage for light
175 - spell critical for light
275 - mana regen per second per light

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med and heavy armor need to be nerfed instead of giving the 30% armor ignoring to light.

Because light players will get 1shot by other light players if this would be a perk of light armor.

so instead your suggestion should be nerf med and heavy armor by 30% of their damage absorption

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I already addressed this point here:

The problem with armor, in my opinion, is the mitigation/damage balance, but mitigation is what makes New World not fun.

Total mitigation is determined by your armor rating plus absorption. At 625 and 200 con, light armor mitigates 28% damage, medium mitigates 42% damage, and heavy mitigates 50% damage. That is before absorption, which includes gems, fortify, and oakflesh. Absorption is capped at 50%. If you use a weapon that allows you to get to the absorption cap easily, like the life staff, you will have ~60% damage mitigation in light armor, ~70% mitigation in medium, and ~80% mitigation in heavy. Then you add critical damage reduction on top of this, and soon you’re taking a small fraction of the damage dealt to you.

Then in terms of damage, light armor does 5-7% more damage than medium and 11-14% more damage than heavy. The light armor damage bonus is applied before mitigation, so that’s why there is a discrepancy in damage.

In terms of mobility, light armor has an advantage now. However, medium and heavy armor actually travel the same distance when dodging. Medium can have up to 4 dodges, so I guess you can say medium is more mobile than heavy, but with 3 dodges they are about equal.

At any rate, with all that said, medium and heavy armor probably do too much damage for how much protection they offer, and heavy armor is probably too mobile (I know this sounds dumb, but the heavy dodge is basically the same as medium dodge).

But the big problem, in terms of enjoyable gameplay, is still mitigation. It is not fun to try to kill someone with +80% mitigation, especially when they have pots or healing. How to fix this? AGS could nerf medium and heavy armor’s damage/healing significantly, which will drive people towards light armor. AGS could put a cap on damage mitigation per armor class, like light can mitigate only up to 45% damage, medium 55% damage, or heavy 65% damage. Alternatively, like someone above suggested, they could give light armor an armor penetration bonus. I do not think giving light armor a flat damage bonus would be a good idea because light armor players would be killing each other very quickly.

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The real DA comes from healers and abilities. Not armor. And if a light armor bow guy has 0% Damage Absorption due to being backline and not much in his kit to gain DA, how would another light user do more damage? 0% dmg absorption would become 0% damage absorption. Light users would do 10% less damage to light users with it being cut in half and due to ignoring 30% DA they would do more damage to medium and heavy.

Light armor doesn’t give much protection anyway, 10% damage Nerf and pierce their non existent armor wouldn’t change damage in my opinion.

I love this idea. Give tanks a proper role.

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Absorption is the collection of Armor, Gems, Consumables, and fortyifying buffs. Its not limited to oak. Also, it capps at 40%, not 50%, but that cap is not the end if you go over. The remaining values become a “reserve” value, which is used against rend when it is applied, which itself has a 30% per a player cap.

Where did you get these values?

What needs to happen is the entire system needs to have power shifted to a more stable point. Fortifying should really only realy be there for tanking, or tanking applied buffs (like defiance stance which should have a range buff itself to 10-20m).

The gems provide to significant a role, and need to be reduced and redesigned themselves specifically so that things like genetric gems (onyx, opal) are removed in place of gems that force people to risk/reward builds.

There is no reason for the armors to have significantly difference defensive values. Bonus’s to the loads (light-to-heavy) can be granted to make them assume that role. For example, heavy armor bonus can be shifted to what it is now to simply having 10% fortifying all the time.

WE can also accomplish more tanky roles by simply just giving heavy 10% Reduction in crowdcontrol effects and leaving that tankiness to be based on how players block, dodge, and potion accordingly since they will be more free of cc and able to react. This approach will also further the concept of cc having value, and the risk-reward nature of glass cannon but it should do it in a way that is consistent and helps it feel more stable.

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@Shadow_Fox good shit right here.

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