Talent Trees - Make NW Decent Again

Hey everyone hope all is well,

What is the problem?

I think this game has a big problem with skill diversity. I want to say that the patch where they buffed all the perks and made them even stronger on weapons was a great change and this is the best balance has felt in the game.

However, the system is very convoluted and promotes a heavy gear based playstyle. We are still in RNG gear hell with like a multitude of bad weapon drops and a few key best in slow pieces (BiS) that you can farm from x dungeon or y mob which I think is great don’t get me wrong.

Matteria currency was a great addition and if I farm this dungeon reliably I will get that piece I want and the PvP track has great gear too to get the pieces you want as well so kudos to the team.

I just cannot help but feel how stale the games combat is for certain classes that don’t really have skill shots. Like your whole progression is reliant on gear and not character level. The only thing you really get from character level are tent upgrades I think?

A big complaint many of my friends had was that there is nothing to look forward to in end game. You use these same abilities and skills throughout the whole game and it gets pretty stale pretty fast. For a 3 button game diversity - which is a key problem this game faces as a whole, not just with abilities but world variety and copy pasta - is very important and cannot be forgotten.

Possible solutions, and how to implement it.

I want to suggest a system like Lost Ark that is tied to abilities rather than a class such as WoW’s talent tree system.

However you get these points through LEVELING.

You would maybe start getting them after level 10? So you would have 50 points for a total of 25 points per weapon you wanted to put them into? Idk there is a way to cut the math properly so it could work even if you don’t start earning them until level 30 or whatever. But at least you would have something else to look forward to.

This video has a great representation of how it could function.

I’m not expecting this to be incredibly in depth, this is NW we are talking about, but I have hope the dev team should strive to achieve something complex yet simple.

I think for simplicity sake, keep the same skill system and ultimate abilities. Already there is a lot of work tied to them and changing the main weapon skill tree is pointless and would be incredible work to redo.

What could be done are different morphs of the six abilities that still utilize the passives the same way but add another layer of perks.

For example shield bash could then morph into shield throw. It still has all the same perks such as threat generation and a stun increasing to 3 seconds, but now you have the option to throw it instead of being close to you. Then further down this alternate tree you go down, you can make it so that it chain hits to nearest enemies and now becomes an AoE shield boomerang.

Or you could go another path and make it so that shield bash becomes a combo within itself and becomes multi shield bash. You shield bash once and then press the key again and do a downwards bash for a 2 hit combo so that it would do more damage than shield throw because you would have to use it in melee range, and make shield throw do less damage because it now is ranged ability - therefore trading utility for damage.

I know we have all seen movies where people shield bash the fuck out of people so I thought it would be cool to turn the shield bash into it’s own combo.

(The shield throw is shamelessly stolen from Paladins in WoW btw, shield bash and multi shield bash is my own idea also stolen from movies.)

Possible problems?

So the big question? What happens to all the gear that people have spent up all this time farming with all these perks etc etc etc. Would be a massive disaster.

Ultimately, for the greater good and complexity of the game I think they would have to be rendered useless. Maybe do an expansion or something? Maybe a refund system where you get a portion of gold back because of all the time you spent farming gear?

I think gear in this game is a different can of worms, but removing weapon/armor perks from gear and weapons and instead just moving them to an actual talent tree or weapon system would do the game so much good in the long term.

You would actually go for those good weapon perks like rogue, trenchant strikes and leeching etc and actual weapon and armor perks than a half baked class system tied with gear.

It would make getting new weapons so much easier and fun to play, and do away with a lot of unnecessary gear management and grind/paywall to get them. You would realistically just have to farm a BiS weapon to try out a new thing because once you had a general BiS set for armor you are good to go for most content. I’m cool with resistances etc for ward armor.

Long story short, this system solves more problems, gives players more choice and build diversity, and makes the game more fun. Would it be harder to balance, yes hence why starting with 2 morphs per ability is a great starting point, and gives players something to look forward to at endgame.

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Simple answer:
If you want the skillsystem of Lost Ark, play Lost Ark.

I love that New World is a three skills per Weapon game and you dont have to faceroll over your keyboard.

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I’m not saying to add more than 3 abilities per weapon, just more customization of the 3 abilities we do get.

Also it’s going to be a 4 ability game soon :wink:

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I’m curious did you read the post at all or you just saw Lost Ark and made a quick judgement when I literally used it as an example of how to customize skills not add more useable abilities to the game.

I didnt read any of it, but if posting on these forums has taught me anything, its that reading it unnecessary and a waste of time usually. :rofl:

That being said, I am always for more customization and player agency. While I am not a fan of the Ironing Board… err… Great Sword, the way they did the skill trees was pretty cool, with an activatable passive… I am all for stuff like this. :+1:

:beers:

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okay okay, maybe i judged a bit too fast, sorry.
I stay with my position that the skillsystem itself is okay and does not need and modifcations.
The only thing that i wish they would change is that skills are unlocked with 50 / 100 / 150 and so on points in the primary or secondary stat of the weapon.
That would balance the insane offhand meta (rapier)

Actually i would love to see skill mutators or sets that really change a skill after you get a certain amount.

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I’d be pretty opposed to gear based grind though. It should be pretty standard and something to see early on in leveling so you have something to look forward to.

Anything but what we have now. I would really, REALLY like a system where every weapon has different interactions based on what armor you use. I can only hope…

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This, they could grant unique passives skills when you accumulate X resource to upgrade it. Similar to how the Ascendancy system works in POE.

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Yes, that’s what I’m talking about, something needs to be done! While getting the 4th ability is cool, it will still be pretty stale unless they release a massive amount of them.

For PvP it will be taking the roots or taking the cleanse. Pretty much 2 options.

Def something needs to change. IMO skill charges need to be added or a 4th ability per weapon. Also new talent tree choices where you have two choices for each active abillity per tree, not just a default three abilities per tree.

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love your thoughts here Birdperson, I will make sure this feedback makes its way up to the Dev team so they can take a look. Have a fantastic weekend!

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Thank you Zelme, I’m excited to see more skill customization. I think before then certain skills on underperforming weapons should be fixed first, and then a system like suggested or like it could be great

balancing this is going to be a nightmare, lost ark have equalised PVP, so nothing needs to be perfect in PVE… i would say no for now but could be explored in 2-3 years
eastern companies also release more polished products in general (no flame AGS:))

This might seem like a fix but it’s going to be more of the same.

At the moment we have 3 main builds based on armor and 2 sub-classes (melee and ranged)

This is hard to balance, because as long as everyone can use the same weapon skills with every armor, the dominant armor will always be the most used. There is no incentive to use some weapons with medium or heavy, God forbid…

They either need to revamp weapon skill tree to make weapons interact differently depending on what armor you have as mentioned above, or add some attribute threshold for some abilities

For instance, wouldn’t it be nice to have stagger on PEN SHOT if you use a bow with heavy armor ?

This is how you create a class system that is easy to balance without removing the diversity from the game

With the creation of the heart runes it’s essentially a 4th ability, aka ultimate ability, so that is definitely already in the game.

I tested it some on the PTR it’s been pretty cool to see the different combos, and adds another layer of uniqueness.

Idk if armor effecting abilities is the answer. It would make it more complex to balance where now it’s 3 different types of ability per armor type. Can very quickly get too complicated.

The armor issue is certainly another topic, and personally I feel like they should remove all the modifiers from light/medium/heavy and make it so armor only affects your dodge type i.e. length , as well as stamina regeneration, and blocking modifier so heavy armor tank is the best tank.

Healing as a whole in the case of heavy armor healer being OP was because of bad stun options, as well as anti healing options. For example when void gauntlet oblivion stopped healing, it was a non issue.

As simple a system that allows for the most player choice is what I would rather have, than armor based abilities, because the mitigation the armor provides is the reason to go that armor type, and I hear what you’re saying in that it makes a unique choice to have heavy armor make penetrating shot do something else, but in an already low ability game we need as much variety as possible for all players to enjoy.

Also before this happens certain dead abilities on certain weapons for example void gauntlet, as well as sword and shield should be looked at first.

There is a massive disparity between the usefulness of certain weapons, i.e. great axe and warhammer. They all have cool abilities that serve a specific purpose.

Where as void gauntlet has things that are very niche, or there is a clear cut build you should go because certain things just aren’t viable like baleful tether.

Sword and shield also has some dead abilities like backstab, that are super hard to combo. Where as maelstrom on great axe is instant and ez AoE, weaken as well as absorbing projectiles.

I really think sword and shield needs a spell reflect for high skill cap counterplay.

I think this is a interesting take. I could see them bringing this along with a layer of weapon mastery though. right now everyone can get same weapon to lvl 20. what if there was another layer to it.

what if after getting all weapons to lvl 20 you can then get a system prompt that ask you if you want to become a master at a certain weapon. they can give you a choice to just master 2 weapons. and with this you are locked into those 2 as your master weapons. which then can unlock the mutated abilities you talk about. the skills then mutate into having different combos and animations.

this can also create a skill gab that I think people will enjoy to show who truly know the two weapons they wield and who does not. kinda like showing the difference between a master swordsman on the battle field compared to a swordsman. the way they move and use the sword will be different. (hence the Mutated Skills and Addition of Combos)

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