Tanking and Taunt Improvements

Game Feedback Game Feedback
1

Its frustrating (and not fun) to tank in New World because of the interface between NPC enemies and tanks.

The first thing tanks need is a way to target taunt. If a new enemy aggros during a fight in-process, then this ‘add’ is likely to go after a healer or dps. In the current state, the tank needs to save a taunt ability or begin meleeing new target as it approaches which is ineffective due to combat mechanics in New World: short range on AE taunts, combat push, long melee animations, and player clipping blocking the tank from moving to the ‘add’. Playing around these limitations is not enjoyable without the addition of a single target ranged taunt.

This leads into discussing a similar scenario, the way enemies run past tank and go directly to puller/healer on an initial pull. In current state, tanks need to time their taunt accounting for enemy run speed and server lag to perform a taunt ability as the enemy enters range. The AE taunts in game are not sufficient range to be reliable in this purpose, and the damage/melee taunt skills are too easy to miss due to clunky melee mechanics and animations of abilities.

Per these two scenarios please incorporate a way to target specific enemies and perform a taunt from medium to long range.

Another suggestion is to display the name of the player with aggro to the enemy health bar. This way tanks can see which enemies are being tanked, and which enemies are currently attacking dps or healers. Without this indicator, tanks are wasting taunts, and also do not have the information needed to effectively peel enemies for offtanking.

Thanks~

4 Likes
2

Without tab targeting adding targeted taunts would likely looking like the wildly cumbersome healer targeting mechanic…and if that’s the case this tank says ‘no thanks’.

I just use a gemmed hatchet throw if I need ranged pulls as things stand now.

3

Agro and tanking do have issues but I don’t think your solutions are the best or necessarily solve the problem.

  1. Requiring a gem socketed to have taunts active is clunky bad design. Also because of this your sword can break MID FIGHT turning off your taunts. This means you’re now actively tanking while trying to kite the boss/mobs around long enough to open your inventory to repair. Any damage knocks you out of your inventory…so…clunky… and bad design. Not to mention just because you’re a tank you now don’t get to build around an interesting gem socket since you’re just forced into a taunt gem at all times. This limits build diversity.

  2. Mob contact hit boxes are larger than hit detection boxes. This leads you to being as close as physically possible to the mob but abilities still not connecting. That taunt not connecting could be life or death for a teammate. Very frustrating.

  3. Actual tank passive threat is extremely low to compensate for their lower threat from low damage. You are essentially tanking in this game by rotating taunt abilities, not actual threat, and this clunkyness is exemplified even more from the #2 problem above. You completely rely on those taunts too much.

  4. Taunt delay. The taunts need to be much snappier. Currently when you land a taunt it makes the mob target you about 2-3 seconds later. That delay gets people killed.

  5. Missing tank stats. Stats are split between sword and shield which would be fine except it doesn’t give you the stats unless the shield is actively out. IE you’re essentially getting half as many stats as all other weapons plus the missing shield armor. We pointed this out during closed beta and the devs said they were looking into fixing it but it’s still not.

1 Like
4

  1. You sword breaking during a fight? No one’s fault but your own and I don’t think this is at all a valid reason to toss the carnelian system. If you can’t be bothered to glance at it’s condition periodically and maybe pause to click Repair All between encounters then I don’t know what to tell you. I have no issue with needing carnelians in my weapons as a concept and carry 5 or 6 cut brilliants around with me in case I pick up a new slotted weapon I feel like swapping to.

  2. Yes, hitboxes need work, no argument.

  3. I disagree. A lot of threat is coming from repeated hits with a gemmed weapon - high damage or otherwise. I can, and have, pulled threat away from a healer with strikes from gemmed weapons without using a taunt. And have you (there should be more of them and the drops to force it as a perk should be as common as any other) used swords or a shield with the Hated perk?

  4. No argument here.

  5. Of course the stats are split and you don’t just get a passive stat buff from having an unequipped shield. This isn’t something that needs to be fixed. And of course you need to have the shield out to gain from the stats. If you didn’t, and the stats just stacked passively, no one would ever be seen without one because it would be a free stat stick.

5
  1. Literally going into the fights fully repaired. No, not my fault. You assume quite a lot.
  2. Able to pull threat as you mention is not the same as having good threat.
  3. You aren’t understanding what I’m talking about here. IE a sword and shield stats combined are equal to say a spear. However the shield is only giving its half of the stats while drawn whereas the spear is giving you its full stats all the time regardless. As I said the devs have already confirmed this issue, agreed with it, and are working on fixing it.
6

You went from 100% to broken in one fight? Not one run, but one single fight?

How is not? If I can overcome heal aggro from a mob with a couple of hit and force it to focus on me then that’s working as intended. In addition I gain threat with every block. I think what you’re asking for is a stance-like mechanic where our simple presence on the field creates an aggro magnet - and it would certainly make life easier if every single mob in the vicinity came after us as soon as we hit aggro range, without having to hit it to create that situation.

Do I have that right? If so, the only thing that does that in the game is - I think - the Hated perk on an equipped weapon/shield (but even that only raises threat and may not act in a passive sense). If you’re after something other than a passive that generates hate just by our presence please explain.

Apparently I did not understand you. I just looked at the Bugs thread. Right you are, mea culpa.

Look, I love tanking, don’t get me wrong. My wife and I have been running Healer/Tank duos for a very, very long time. In some ways I like the mechanics here where I don’t have as many tools as I’ve had in other games and have to do more work. In other ways, sure, I would love a crazed aggro magnet like my EQ2 barbarian berserker tank. I don’t know that I want the job to be easier (in terms of threat management) but I get what you’re saying.

7

  1. never will you fight for that long that your weapon breaks in a single fight without pause.
    Exception: you use a bugged weapon with 300 durability instead of 3000 (yes, exists).

  2. having threat, pulling threat, avoiding threat.
    Havent seen any issue on that with the group I am playing with. Experience difference?

  3. Ideally, all stats would be located on the sword and zero stats on the shield. Or to make it easier for AGS: sword and shield have to be a single item, as the shield does not have any other reason than being used together with the sword.

8

If tanks had that auto aggro that healers had then things might be fairly workable. It takes a lot of work to taunt things off of others, especially since the taunts are very short in duration, 2-5 sec at most I think (will have to double check listed time for those in game).
Also, the hate gear doesn’t really seem to have an effect, or not much of one.

3 Likes
9

I am a tank. I tanked every instance and boss in NW. It is fun for me.

Yes I save taunts and it is not ineffective.

It is the difference between a good and a bad tank. You have to decide: Concentrate on boss and trusting the group to handle the add or going after the add while the boss keeps aggroing you.

Skill is not just a number in you profession list.

Why, you named the player already … it is the healer. And … it is not WoW. :slight_smile:

10

1.) no it is not
2.) Hit boxes are bad. I agree.
3.) Disagree. You are tanking by taunt abilities and blocking. Blocking also creates aggro.
4.) Normally people get not killed by this delay. At least from my experience.
5.) Whatever. Not a big issue for me.

11

Knivil, there is a difference between being the best you can be with the limitations of the system,

and realizing the system is buggy/clunky as hell.

The game can still be skill based and fun with lifestyle improvements in taunt mechanics and HUD. Game visuals are not always clear who has aggro. Think about 5 players fighting in front of a large enemy like a brute or bear - who has aggro? Think about a myrk commander who does his ‘point’ then dash at a group of players - who are they dashing at? If the enemy target was displayed, tanking would allow more strategy and keen ability usage. This would also allow great tanks to be noticed, becasue It would be clear to the group how aware the tank is by how quickly the tank responds to ‘adds’ or lost hate.

This is what Im asking for:
-the ability to taunt an ‘add’ sneaking in behind the group while tanking a boss out of defiant stance aggro range,
-without using dodge stamina (aka my shield health) or movement ability linked to a weapon I may not have equipped to get close to add,
-tank movement to pickup add, which causes boss to turn into my teammates, causing collateral damage/deaths
-due to the current system requiring absurdly close range to effectively taunt,
-and aside of all of the above, movement to pick up add may otherwise be blocked by clipping against my unaware teammates

The Devs just made a post about combat improvements coming, and those improvements may negate some of the issues highlighted in this thread.

1 Like
12

You can expect your teammates to use block or dodge on their own.
They shouldnt just spam LMB until all mobs are dead.

13

To clarify:
570GS SS/Hat tank with 15400hp - leveled 1-60 as a tank and continue to tank open world content, expeditions and pvp. Here’s my 2 cents

The first thing tanks need is a way to target taunt. If a new enemy aggros during a fight in-process, then this ‘add’ is likely to go after a healer or dps. In the current state, the tank needs to save a taunt ability or begin meleeing new target as it approaches which is ineffective due to combat mechanics in New World: short range on AE taunts, combat push, long melee animations, and player clipping blocking the tank from moving to the ‘add’. Playing around these limitations is not enjoyable without the addition of a single target ranged taunt.

First para response:
We have a target taunt. It’s shield bash which just so happens to frontal cleave. In addition, it’s your job as a tank to communicate to your group to let you build up some initial threat through blocking (which generates a MASSIVE amount of threat if gemmed) and some extra damage.
Defiance stance and berserk both have a decent radius that if you see any mob run past you, you can easily taunt it over. As for ranged targets - again, it is your responsibility as a tank to communicate line of sight strategies with your team. And if they decide not to - well they get to learn a harsh lesson.

This leads into discussing a similar scenario, the way enemies run past tank and go directly to puller/healer on an initial pull. In current state, tanks need to time their taunt accounting for enemy run speed and server lag to perform a taunt ability as the enemy enters range. The AE taunts in game are not sufficient range to be reliable in this purpose, and the damage/melee taunt skills are too easy to miss due to clunky melee mechanics and animations of abilities.

Second para response:
Disagree wholeheartedly. The only reason for this scenario to play out is if you don’t communicate strategy with your group or someone else face pulls another mob which you have multiple taunts, cc and interrupts to deal with. If your group is so far split that and aoe taunt can’t pull aggro from ranged - then you have other issues going on (or again - someone face pulled/didn’t follow strategy)

Per these two scenarios please incorporate a way to target specific enemies and perform a taunt from medium to long range.

Third para response:
Agreed - would be a nice QoL improvement but would require reworking several weapons to make work. Don’t see how this can be done and maintain weapon balance.

Another suggestion is to display the name of the player with aggro to the enemy health bar. This way tanks can see which enemies are being tanked, and which enemies are currently attacking dps or healers. Without this indicator, tanks are wasting taunts, and also do not have the information needed to effectively peel enemies for offtanking.

Fourth para response:
Again, Agreed. Would be a nice QoL change.
As for wasting taunts… there should NEVER be an scenario where you’re casually wasting a taunt. If you’re casually shield bashing, defiance stancing (unless you can reset it’s cooldown with reverse stab quickly) or whatever other taunt you have then I’m sorry bossman but you’re fucking up. Taunting abilities should only ever be used to reset aggro back onto yourself or if tied to defensive abilities - used to keep yourself alive (Which if you’re doing then you clearly don’t have a threat issue, unless you’re standing in shit I suppose)

Finishing thoughts:
I have no issues tanking in this game. Stagger damage to conserve stamina, block heavy damaging abilities/stuns and taunt if you need to. Honestly wouldn’t mind seeing some QoL changes but for direct targeted taunts (warcraft taunts is what it sounds like you’re referring too) - maybe can be done is add an extra passive to the hatchet to taunt on hatchet throw if you’re gemmed - as for the other tanking weapons - I can’t see them being reworked to incorporate a ranged direct taunt.

1 Like
14

thorandryc, I agree with everything you stated as it pertains to single targets.

Your numbering connects to Blueberrys post correct? - clarity on this for if Devs ever visit this thread they can connect the dots.

My only additional comment is related to tanking many targets, as opposed to a single target. My ask for a ranged single target taunt is actually coming from what EQ1 did with ‘incite’ line of abilities. With this ability you could ‘tag’ incoming enemies from mid-range while facing any direction, with just enough hate that the enemy would come to the tank instead of going for a healer. This gives tank the ability to tag unexpected adds, and pull these near enough to the tank. Then, the tank can physically turn and use a close range combat ability hate to secure that mob without jumping all over the battlefield. (which is an issue with all the combat knockback and clipping currently in New World)

The skill involved here is tank awareness, targeting enemy quickly, and managing cooldown/resources of this ability, and following up on ability to secure the hate.

15

Getting pushed around when blocking is super irritating, hell I don’t even know why collision in PVE is a thing, but I do feel like threat is a bit weak and in certain areas like the event in dynasty where waves spawn to stop you blowing up the ship, it’s extremely easy to get mob blocked and then it’s borderline impossible to get through to the mob hitting your healer or some ranged monkey that isn’t standing behind you, or at least nearby. Couple that with playing with randoms that are generally completely clueless and it’s a recipe in frustration. I hope they do something about this soon because it really doesn’t feel that great compared to other games in that regard.

16

My apologies - fixed formatting.

The post was directed to your opening post.

And I believe my point still stands - for multi targets you can hold aggro fairly easily if you position yourself correctly.

For example in how I start a pull (in my case, my team mates know to hold back until I position mobs correctly)
Assume: 1 heavy melee mob, 2 medium melee mobs and 2 light ranged mobs positioned close enough together that any aggro on one will pull the other 4 and running in balls first will pull additional groups and cause a wipe.

Scenario 1:

  1. I hatchet throw 2 ranged mobs for 450 damage (generating an additional 300% threat)
  2. Line of sight causing the 2 ranged adds to begin walking towards me
    2.1) Shield block is up and ready and 3 melee adds + 2 ranged are now meleeing me or within melee attacking range.
  3. Now that I have a threat lead - I defiance stance for the fortify buff (and to generate taunt + threat) and position reverse stab to hit at least 3 targets reducing my defiance stance from 40 secs to ~5-10secs remaining cooldown and proceed to start meleeing.
  4. Heals are now dropped on me and dps start doing their job.

This is a common scenario for me and the only time I have ever lost threat was during the hatchet bug. As for the ranged mobs, they are subject to 2x defiance stances and melee attacks. This opening scenario from start to beginning is about 5 seconds.

Scenario 2 or shit has hit the fan:
You’re in an uncoordinated group who have members leroying their dumbarses into mobs.

  1. Immediately taunt and begin generating threat on the highest damaging melee mobs.
  2. Begin corralling your group towards the ranged adds as they smash their faces on the keyboard.
  3. It’s not the end of the world if some basic ranged mobs attack your healer/dps - in this scenario all semblance of coordination is gone (ie think of most pug myrkgard groups) and even if you taunt the ranged mob, unless you’re directly on top of it, it’s just going to go back to attacking the dps/healer anyways.
  4. Reverse stab as efficiently as possible and aoe taunt who you can.
    4.1) You can now use line of sight to start stacking the loose mobs or if you violently ping enough - your group to run to a line of sight location.

I believe these 2 scenarios are the most common for tanks at 60 - either coordinated group play or some hectic high stress bulls… Regardless, I can’t see how a ranged directed would be a significant change. The moment the taunt ends - you will immediately lose ‘hate/aggro/threat’ on that ranged mob and if you can’t get within aoe taunting distance of that mob then you need to communicate more with your group to line of sight. Sure it’s nice being able to drag dps and heals kicking and screaming over the finish line but I’ve been enjoying the group dynamics in pve that I feel some of it would be lost if it was just myself taking care of everything outside of damaging and healing.

17

I think tanking would be fine if they just gave tank a bit of resistance to staggering getting tossed around so much (even with shield up i get pushed back pretty far). And maybe remove player collision in dungeons.

18

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.