Tanking + Runeglass + Carnelean Gems

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Hear me out…

EDIT incase this is missed on people these arent real runeglass things, these are ideas for them that I came up with. Sent some friends to this link and they came back with “See they are doing stuff for tanks.” Had to explain this is a proposed idea to use runeglass and improve tanking. =D

Runeglass of Threatening Ruby

Threatening Ignited: 50% of damage is converted to Fire (Scales off base weapon state or INT, whichever is higher) and taunts are active. You generate +300% more threat.

Calming Fire Ward: +5% Fire Damage Absorption and you generate 10% less threat.

Tanks has been struggling with the idea of having to slot a carnelian gem in our weapon for a long time. We’ve asked for AGS to figure out a different way to activate taunts but this would allow us to move that activated tuant feature to runeglass giving us better gem options as a tank. This would also provide another opportunity for DPS and Healers to potentially slot a threat reduction on their gear.

Another idea is to allow this to stack with Carnealians.

Runeglass of Threatening Carnelian

Threatening Taunting IV: You generate 450% more threat.

Improved Calming IV: You generate 20% less threat.

Alternatively create a tank specific runeglass…

Runeglass of Bulwark Ruby

Bulwark Ignited: 50% of damage is converted to Fire (Scales off base weapon state or INT, whichever is higher). Taunts are active and you deal 300% more threat. Enemies affected by your taunt deal 5% less damage to other party members.

Bulwark Fire Ward: +5% Fire Damage Absorption, you generate 10% less threat, enemies affected by a taunt which hit you have a Burn applied to them for 5% of their health for 6s, this effect stacks.

In this concept… the 5% net damage reduction would be a benefit to the person applying the taunt. While the 2.5% reduction gives tanks with this runeglass benefit in PVP to protect their team.

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Great ideas here. I’m sold. Tanking and heavy armor in general needs some love. Too much of the gameplay revolves around light armor dodging.

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These are great ideas. /signed

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I think the change to the sprint time after being melee’d changing from 1.7s → 0.5s for heavy will make tanking feel much better in pvp, cc still exists rightfully so. But I believe it will feel easier to keep up with light armor and harder to be locked down, without playing it of course. But I am 100% on board with these, tanks need more ways to either buff their squad or apply debuffs to enemies, tying a debuff onto the taunt mechanic would be a simple add only affecting tanks great idea!

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Bump

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Tagging a few folks that have been really active in Tank discussions recently that I respect hoping they chime in with their input on this idea.

@Halcyon @Tingene @Legendairy @Broomhilda

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Looks good!

Might I add a contribution such as:

I feel like there’s endless possibilities that can be done to improve tanking and let tanks customize their approach.

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Honestly I am not 100% sure what would make tanking more mandatory. I think the suggestion of adding a flat dmg resistance from heavy armor would help and making it where if you dont have a hefty amount of Con (maybe 200 baseline??) PLUS full heavy armor PLUS full ward for mutations would work. There is zero reason you should be able to go into mutations in light or medium armor and dodge roll spam while abusing life stealing and riposte with a rapier / hatchet. In regulars, by all means let there be some flexibility where the very skilled can get away with that play style but a tank makes it easier for the average joe. They need to do something where if you arent in heavy as a tank and venture into mutations, you pop like a balloon. PvP is miserable as it is and it is even more annoying how many people you get trying to go do mutations in PvP builds and gear. No offense but mutations should be so hard that you need a FULL PvE build

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I like the idea but I’m not sure it fits with how rune glass works as a system right now. It takes the base effects of the GEM you use and applies a new effect that universally works. Following that methodology this would take a cut pristine carnelian with is what is triggering the taunts… and it’s adding the rend effect with Sundering Affix. How does that work when you use a Ruby for example?

I think you can generalize it to make it work…

Carnelian: Your attacks against taunted targets apply a stack…
Ruby: Your attacks against enemies with a burn apply a stack…
Aquamarine: Your attacks against enemies with a chill apply a stack…
Malachite: Your attacks against stunned enemies apply a stack…
Emerald: Your attacks against mobs below 30% health apply a stack…
Diamond: Your attacks while at full health…

I think to balance it you would want to reduce the duration so that it has to be maintained and I probably would make an argument that it should work like neriad’s rend where each stack has it’s own duration. Don’t use the apply to refresh and maintain.

The current runestone are all 2% or so I believe so a 1% rend which would apply to everyone in the party would actually be consistent damage wise with what they are trying to accomplish.

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I’m not sure how this applies to the discussion in this thread. While this is aimed at tanks, the discussion here focuses on the idea that we don’t have anything for us in the rune glass system. I presented an idea that not only gives us a runeglass gem that we can use and would likely enjoy using but it addresses a core complaint I’ve seen others and my self make for a year. That it wasn’t far that in order to have our taunts work, we have to slot a carnelean gem. Runeglass is a perfect system to allow us to move out of that relegated position.

This would let us slot any gem we want using the tanking runeglass gem giving us more freadom to slot our damge to the creature type we are facing allowing us to generate more threat more easily while contributing more damage when we are swinging.

This helps and affects all tanks regardless of their tank play style or armor weight.

That said preach on brother, what you said all makes sense and I fully support it. Just trying to chisel away at our role’s deficiencies one small bit at a time with small low hanging fruit suggestions. =D

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Database shows a runeglass carnelians with close to the properties listed.

Will be going into ptr after patch to see what is there.

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@Malva

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Yo these ideas are for sure in the right direction. I want this plus the reworked Ideas someone else posted for the three shield types. which I have no idea how to find so if someone could link it here that would be swell. but yes! Keep the tank improvements rollin and pray AGS sees haha

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I’ve added it to the post!

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Yep, the runeglass carnelian gems are there.
11 choices.
Like Runeglass of Leeching Carnelian, Runeglass of Ignited Carnelian etc.etc.

All runeglass gems have the same 11 choices of damage types- just a bit differently applied according to the gem.

In your armor the runeglass carnelian gives a player less threat with a small bonus damage type (example ice, leech etc.
In your weapon its all about an increased taunt with a bit of bonus damage

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Here is what I am talking about…and hopefully this makes sense. Right now we require a carnelian to activate taunts. Specifically a carnelian. This is an example of a gem that we might elect to use in Lazarus. This is consistent with how the runeglass works…the same effect is applied on top of the base gem function.

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But what I am proposing is to introduce a carnelian LIKE effect to the Runeglass itself. Which allows us to use conversion gems or conditional gems w/ this new Runeglass effect and get both the conversion (which we currently can not do) and the taunt activation which we must have as tanks.

So instead of:

Electrified Taunt: You generate +250% more threat, and hits inflict surge, dealing 8% lightning damage per second for 2s.

Electrified Calm: You generate 8% less threat, and your lightning attacks do an additional 2% damage.

I am proposing something like this…

Electrified Taunt: 40% of damage is converted to lightning (Scales off base weapon stat or INT, whichever is higher), and taunts are active, you generate +250% more threat.

Cowering Lightning Ward: +5% lightning damage absorption, and you deal 8% less threat.

This allows us to swap parts of our damage output to the matching creature type.

Which is highly superior for us…

Let’s assume that 8% damage per 2s equates to actually 8% damage. I don’t think it will when you factor in abilities but lets say it does. This means the gem causes us to generate 50% less additive threat but we deal 8% more damage. Let’s assume we only have the carnelian threat modifier. Let’s assume the creature is actually susceptible to the damage type by 30%.

If x is the amount of threat a tank generates without a carnelian.

Cut Pristine Carnelian
1x * 4 = 4x

Rune Glass Electrified Carnelian vs Ancients
((1x + (.08 * 1.3)) x (1 + 2.5)) = 3.5178x

Rune Glass Threatening Topaz vs Ancients (My Proposal)
((.6x * 1) + (.4x * 1.3)) * (1 + 2.5) = 3.92x

The threat output of the tank will be more consistent with what we had before due to the damage output. If their goal is to reduce threat then they can reduce the threat modifier however this scaling is consistent with the conversion bonuses that other DPS get to their damage that tanks never get.

When you compare threat in instances depending on the creature type our threat to dps output fluctuates and this would give us options to make that more consistent.

Also PLEASE NOTE:
This should not replace the carnelian versions of rune glass gems. Allow players to choose the carnelian w/ the other effects if they so choose. Rather this should be one additional rune glass feature that gives tanks a more robust selection to choose from consistent with the options already available to DPS both before and after these new Runeglass gems.

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Bump

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Been offline a few days getting a new water cooling system for the PC. Love these ideas @Sonickat ! Will contribute more later!

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Bumping this idea for more visibility

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Still looking for any acknowledgement from developers that tanks exist and that we at some point are going to get some tender loving care thrown our way.