As I watched my global chat last night with several people accusing one of the Muskets on the server of aimbot cheats I had a realization.
This is yet another reason HITSCAN should be removed from this game. The primary reason aimbot can work so well in this game is because you made the Musket hitscan.
I’m not here to say if this person cheats or not. I’d like to have real discussion or a response from a CM/Dev on the hitscan issue is all. If you remove the hitscan now an aimbot is much less effective as the player on the other end can make the shot miss still via smart movement and dodges.
This is just another reason it should be removed, not the only reason. It remains clear to everyone who engages in PVP regularly that having 1 weapon immune to dodges, proccing shirking fort, etc is clearly broken.
I play quite a bit of BB as well and go ahead and make it not hitscan also. I don’t think it matters much bc the range is so short but do it. Nothing should be hitscan in a game based on dodging attacks.
That’s all. Please can we get a response on this topic.
Hitscan isn’t really the issue. Rather, their Anti-cheat is weak while instanced pvp maps (3v3),(OPR),(War) for the most part are all wide open ranges. You can blame hitscan if you want but it ultimately wouldn’t change a thing. This of course is IF there are as many “Aimbotters” as some of ya’ll constantly claim as there are plenty of people that play FPS & TFPS. / Granted however that it doesn’t take much effort to find a website that blatantly sells aimbots for games either.
Even if musket becomes a weapon with bullet drop will suddenly players who hate the weapon suddenly take the L when they’re killed by one? No, there will still be posts made calling the weapon broken, over powered, game ruining, & still call “aimbot”.
By the way aimbots aren’t limited to fps with hitscan. Games like battlefield have plenty of em too. Aimbot is not exclusive to hitscan JSYK.
I mean they still make cheats and aim bots for projectile firing systems in games so it won’t solve the issue 100% but yes I agree. Hitscan shouldn’t be in the game at all and the whole game should be projectile based if anything for skill based reasons.
This is true, many players would do this, evident by watching people pretty much call everything that they struggle to fight against OP.
On the other issue of it not 100% fixing it, yes that’s also true. I didn’t claim it would make aimbots ineffective. Just less effective which it absolutely would because now if the aimbot targets directly at you but you’re moving properly you won’t be in that spot when the projectile gets there and/or you now have the ability to dodge or even see it and quickly block like I do against archers.
The biggest reason to remove it is what I said in the OP. It has no place in a game based on skill shots and dodges. It is the definition of imbalanced as hitscan weapons are the only weapons in the game that are immune to dodging, proccing shirking fort/heals, etc.
Quick Edit: I’m mostly just asking for a response on the topic. I’ve not seen a response on this issue ever despite it being a topic PVPers have talked about since before the game released. If the devs come out and say “we think hitscan being immune to being dodged, strafed, or counter played in any way other than sneak up behind and gank is balanced” then I’ll drop the topic. I’ll think they’re idiots but I’ll drop the topic.
If by which an argument of Skill Shot, that is subjective. There are spells that require Aim but there are many spells that are AoE some of which are larger than others. Because the optimal meta based on how the game was designed ended up with Zerg, these spells require the least minimal effort to Hit.
Rather the game is based around Zerg & AoE. The closest thing to Skill in new world is individual effectiveness on the battlefield. By which I do not mean a numeral score.
2 Things,
The imbalance in New World comes from a magnitude of issues one of which being the combat ratio is set to PvE. There are too few balancing update & vastly spread apart from each other, weapons cover multiple strengths, a fragmented matchmaking, a scoreboard that poorly rates contribution, and battleground maps that grant majority advantage to specifically 2 weapons.
Musket AA is as all other weapons completely dodgeable. The only difference is the reaction time for this weapon is more precise vs more telegraphed & wind up based animations visible with more seconds to press shift. Musket fires in 2s intervals, aside from shooter stance. It’s a tad bit harder requiring much more practice but is not immune to being dodged.
If you are holding out for a Dev response it varies as conversation with them is rare, and or a very simple reply that is normally mentioned. And even if AGS were to say “we think the musket hitscan is okay” the forum unfortunately will not accept the verdict either. An example of this, there are constant posts against Umbral Shard Selling. The devs have responded already ruling that shard selling is perfectly fine, legal, and nothing will be done. Have players accepted the ruling? Not at all.
Completely agree with you that the game modes tend to make the matters much worse. OPR scoring absolutely encourages bad play and rewards just sniping damage and kills over getting your ass on an objective. I said in my video on leaderboards and on multiple threads about it that they should not be added until the scoring system is completely overhauled (as well as cross server so they can add a real solo Q). OPR is going to be cancer.
To further point the finger at the game mode muskets are definitely less of a problem in arena due to the size putting them always in gap close range. Like the BB I don’t think up close hitscan is much of an issue but hitscan still at long range is the problem IMO. Perhaps hitscan within X meter and after that a travel time on projectile? Maybe too much coding work there though, no knowledge on coding to say.
Musket may have a particular interval on which they can shoot but a smart musket would just notice you’re dodging every 2 seconds and wait to shoot you at the end of the dodge IMO. Just like a smart melee is going to wait until you stam yourself out before they use some super telegraphed shit that you would otherwise dodge.
Decent point about average players not accepting the answer but I’m not an average player and just want a response for myself. I guess that’s a bit selfish to expect from CM’s and devs dealing with tons of requests for response every day.
Avoiding Musket AA ultimately is a game of chicken. Yes, a competent musket will adjust to another player banking on the 2s interval. But vise versa the competent attacker will adjust to the probability. Whether or not a musket player dies comes down who’s better at prediction & baiting.
The highest success on muskets are flanking from behind, as while they do have an annoying range of 100-120m they also have the worst scaling. For a musket to properly deal high damage they must run 50 to default 5 con. This makes sitting ducks to assassins & flankers. Bow & Hatchet can also very much hit muskets from 100m bow being the easier one of the two.
Never questioned whether you’re good at the game or not. The topics involving the musket however tend to be lead by people who refuse to run counter builds, counter snipe, or flank. Again not categorizing you specifically the overall anti-musket posts almost always end up in that direction. Productive discussions like this are also rare on the forum.
On the bright side at least the op is polite on asking for an answer. You’ve got dozens of post ping spamming them post to post as if their inboxes are free real-estate. With at many of times being more statements, demands, sometimes threats. I think in the long run the probability of a CM responding to you will go up the more discussion happens on your thread. That alone is tricky as these discussions for some strange reasons don’t get traffic while conflict posts generate an ocean. It’s also very possible that the CM’s don’t have an answer on the musket topic right now and probably feel they can’t give a reasonable enough answer with the data that they have.
Definitely agree again on the best methods for success on them, flanking from behind is the highest success (for me anyway as I definitely am not into playing ranged to counter snipe). Not only because of the low con but also because they have bad peripheral when ADS to make shots.
I still think hitscan doesn’t make sense based on the overall combat direction the game has. The prediction and baiting is most challenging vs musket not only because its hitscan but it also doesn’t have a super clear draw animation like a bow does. Much easier to see an archer is drawn back and about to loose the arrow compared to a trigger being pulled. Perhaps this could be a nice compromise…some better way to tell when they’re pulling the trigger. Perhaps it even exists and I don’t know (if it does please tell me haha).
I do run things to counter it and they’re a big reason why I usually go light in OPR so I have mobility to flank and chase. That said there has also been a rise in threads asking for nerfs to more than one thing being used to kill them, like the Hatchet you mentioned. Stagger already removed from social distance throw on PTR. That’s going to hurt.
Big agree again on the rational polite discussion/debate being rare pretty much anywhere online so I appreciate the interaction we’ve had on the thread.
I would say that is an advantage the musket had to the bow. However the bow had advantage in fire rate to that of a musket. Of course that also depends on the experience of the musketeer & which type of musket as there’s many.
The games reload if you look at it in this quick gif
The animation has the unit load a cartridge & pull a lever. The game skips over what other wise would be loading the powder, the iron ball & packing it in with a long rod. Even without the full animation the Musket suffers from a much longer reload. Most players (As far as I’ve seen) do not draw a full charge choosing to pelt the map with speed firing. I would peg the musket being close to a matchlock 15th century mashed together with the logic of a bolt action rifle.
The hitscan conflict itself can be solved by simply revamping the outpost rush map like they did many of the settlements.
There’s no hidden indicator. Just the series of probability equations happening all at once when wanting a musket player dead. I would say let musket player retain hitscan but require the full historical reload. To balance & compensate, recalibrate musket attribute ratio to equal bow allowing for 300/200 muskets. Glass Cannon should be a choice not a requirement and that includes muskets.
This isn’t the matrix bro, you can’t “dodge” bullets even in FPS games, the bullets CAN miss, and even HITSCAN CAN MISS (have you ever played CSGO or Valorant? Even majority of these FPS’ games playerbase can MISS with hitscan. And you are missing the fact that, i-Frames literally make you immune to damage and that INCLUDES hitscan attacks. And even in those FPS games “iFrames” don’t exist which means if they get shot they take the hit or the bullets miss because they moved 1 centimeter away from someone’s crosshair (congratulations, you pressed a button to move your character to avoid getting hit)
If you time your iframe before the shot is taken and the shot is taken DURING your iframe, the hitscan deals 0 damage, the hit becomes invalidated and is not registered and therefore “iframed”
Nah im on Orofena but you know how it is with the war players. Most of them have multiple characters and war on multiple servers so still possibly the same guy haha
Interesting idea, im not sure if it would make much of a difference though. The guns have some weird stuff like reload on dodge and not sure if musket works like BB but with BB you just weapon swap, do one attack or roll then swap back and BB magically reloaded itself.
At this point I’ve adapted my playstyle and force them to come close if they want a shot at me by always being in the enemy home base making sure they dont have a respawn all match and avoiding the laser show at mid. If they wanna shoot me they have to come near the door and then I jump them the moment they whif a shot.
I just think the hitscan makes them ruin the game mode for pretty much all average players. The average player loop is keep running out the center door right to where ever the zerg is all stat padding on each other then getting sniped over and over and I see many people giving up on OPR.
I would not like it if my weapons were changed bc of low skill players unable to counter it though so maybe I am just off base with this.
Because New World is in a Fantasy setting, ags could & can get away with many things. Hyper realistic would hurt the game more than the goofy reload we have now. That and we’d open the door to other realisms that have been glossed over such as armors, weight, resistance. It would be a world class headache.
I’ve gotten used to being at the end of a bow or musket to where strafing is common practice. In outpost rush I almost never concern myself with muskets as I’m safer in a den of GA/WH critters on point than running in an open field as muskets time and time again refuse to step foot on the objective.
I suppose hitscan can be frustrating for average players but at the same time learning & practice shouldn’t be frowned upon. An average player has the ability to improve and become a good player. We were all noob once. I think the debate of the musket can be solved without nerfing the musket into oblivion by simply tweaking certain things.
Such as
The OPR map or Create an Urban (Like MyrkGuard) battle ground.
Add Fog of War by making weather relevant or by making the battlegrounds require greater teamwork. Muskets would then rely on allies to be spotters, making ping slightly more relevant. In addition to perhaps adding structures that can function like wards for vision in those areas.
Make the point value of damage & kills lower while increasing point value of objective & teamplay.
Do not reward the losing team. I know people don’t want to spend a 40m match n all. So then reduce the score from 1000 to maybe 300 - 500. Make it points per second per fort captured & reduce the time from maybe 20ish - 25min. Stat padders exist because there is no consequence to ignoring objectives. Aka there’s no deterrent.
Player vs Player should never be balanced around a low skill cap. It should be balanced between contrasting data between the Average & the Good. Though right now that’s skewed until the battleground scoreboards are made to reflect Skill > Score
Especially when you put in time to learn the weapon, grind the gear, and all the gold spent on it just to lose it because the bottom of the barrel can’t measure up. But I mean that’s in all games. Just sucks when studios bend the knee.
I completely agree with you, especially about the point value issues in OPR and map design.
As I said in one of the earlier replies in here Musket doesn’t feel bad in arena, the game mode + average player behavior creates the problem…but that problem is largely created due to the way scoring works.
The lowest scores I’ve ever gotten in OPR were the games where I was most effective at helping the team win. Doing things like solo back capping the enemy base to force their zerg to divide for example generally results in super low score unless everyone who shows up to stop you is super bad and you get to wreck 20+ people in the match while doing this job.
Apex legends uses EAC and they made goddamn well sure any one the uses “aimbot”
or any form of hacks ends up banned within literally the week. That’s why most of these cheaters are on a “FRESH” account literally level 1 because they get banned eventually. And that won’t sit in new world where you literally have to spend ATLEAST 500 hours to get something competent going on with your character.
People forget that this is a goddamn MMO, Musket damage comes from gear (and goddamn BiS muskets hit like a truck), it doesn’t matter if you can 100% headshot players with your green 500 gs musket, you will deal mosquito bite for damage.
and it also relys on a base to base report, so someone needs to sit down and review that report to determine to ban the player or not. Its not automatically and with new world being in the state its in I doubt someone is actually going to sit down and filter through who needs a ban or not. The same people who let bots run/ran rampant for months.
