After playing NW I don’t know if I can switch back to traditional RPG with classes to be honest.
And I want to try Ashes of Creation so bad.
cant even get the forest warden set. i seriously SERIOUSLY hope that the hinted at bad guy angry earth chick zone has that at t5 590+
was thinking more eldritch horror but a human sized stalker could also work.
a size diffrence can also invoke a sense of dread if done right. and colossal world bosses are cool if also done right.
I was amore alluding to the fact that Margit the Fell ripped new players new assholes left and right as a significantly challenging gatekeeper boss.
Imagine if people actually felt intimidated to fight something in New World. Like, the closest I get to the that feeling is joining a Tempest PUG and rolling up on Neishatun. It’s like “Ok, time to see if my teammates are actually trash or not.”
I’m not worried about the boss so much as I am worried about my teammates. I want to feel challenged by the boss, not the number of chromosomes my teammates have.
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ah that’s from elden ring. didnt play that yet.
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Mark Rosewater is a legend. Not many people stay in the game industry and remain true to their game as much as he has. What a legend. No matter how dedicated you are to the game, he is definitely one you can always learn from.
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Really good post, funniest thing for me out of this is I have absolutely no idea what the lore/story in this game is.
I 100% agree with the OP’s take.
Specific to #10: One very important thing I learned as a developer (not games) was to get out of the way of the user as much as possible. Create an environment that is sensible and straightforward, and let them do whatever it is they need to do: in the case of a game, the user needs to PLAY.
Making the players jump through a lot of arbitrary hoops isn’t play. Nothing about grinding expertise or crafting RNG is fun.
On the other hand, housing is. Furnishing a home is a combination of leveling crafting and finding/buying recipes, and then the system mostly gets out of the way of the player and lets them explore what their house can look like. AGS did a good job with the basic structure of housing, in a way they didn’t with systems like armorsmithing.
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Speaking of which, crafting was supposed to have stupidly strong weapons & armor locked behind rare drop recipes.
Except, you know. We have the RNG Gamba system.
Used to be cool getting those schematics. Now they’re just for novelty of having a crafting bench filled out for crap named craftables.
During the leveling process your random crafts can chance at creating a named weapon. No such thing in end-game crafting. FeelsBadMan.
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I mostly agree with you on furnishing, but even there they stuck their hands in to limit players in a way that doesn’t allow agency. Only being able to put up certain numbers of certain types of items is a limit that just doesn’t make any sense.
I had my girlfriend help me decorate my Ebonscale Reach house because I thought it would be a fun activity for us (it was) even though she doesn’t play the game. I bought or made all of the things I wanted, then we went through the rest of my inventory and started getting really into it. But then we ran into the limit on the number of lighting elements that you can have in your house. WTF? And then there’s the limit on the total number of items in your house, as well. And only being able to put up 5 trophies at a time. Not sure if there are other limits on furnishing your home, but they just don’t make sense to me.
I can kind of understand the trophy thing being an azoth sink before they nerfed azoth travel costs, but now it’s just annoying. Should be able to put them all up, or even just have them in the local storage, and activate them from the character screen. Otherwise, it’s just another time sink where you’re not playing the game.
The limits are probably based on technical performance, but I agree they stink. Since there are cards to upgrade the number of items, I think the item limit has some extra play they could loosen up.
I don’t even really decorate and you run into lighting limits super fast.
I think that was the idea, but they didn’t consider that those items weren’t really end game items. They were great for like the first month of the game, if you leveled your crafting up to 200 super quick. I remember occasionally getting the WH or GA artifacts and drooling over being able to craft a guaranteed legendary STR weapon. But the minute I made it to Genesis and Lazarus dungeon level, the drops from there blew everything else out of the water. And making the items BoP just made them even less useful, because so few people could actually make them.
Well, they allow players to have cc, mobility, high damage and utility with every weapon as long as they play in light armor. They nailed it here…
Again, as long as you use light armor, EVERY BUILD has cc, utility, high damage and mobility
Tanks are for peasants that don’t use i-frames
So, I wouldn’t say it’s limited
To be honest, I’ve seen better ideas on the forum than they released in the past 6 months
Great post and I especially agree with the above.
I think New World has good bones and just needs to work on a few tweaks and better marketing. Personal customisation through transmog and unique skill builds are important.
Game developers often make the mistake of dumbing things down to try and attract new players (and we all know how well that went for Star Wars Galaxies), when what you really need are ways for diverse levels to play together. This can be achieved through highlighting rewards available only in lower level content (New World does this slightly with things like Sacred perk craft mod only being available in a lower expedition) or by allowing low level players to be carried in higher content (the second way is worse because the new player doesn’t learn how to play).
In the very popular transmog thread, there is an idea that relates to collecting skins from various level items in the game. This would give higher level players something to do while helping their low level friends. Collecting in general can keep players addicted.
Another option is to scale some content, so for e.g. if a mixed team goes into Amrine, everyone’s output is scaled to the content (no lvl 60 smashing through it) but rewards are also scaled to the level of the players, so the lvl 60 gets drops at their Expertise level. This way each player gets to contribute to the progress and is rewarded appropriately, so friends can play together without getting bored.
The other thing New World needs to work on is some solid research on who their audience is, what motivates them, and how to design collaboratively to meet their needs.
Developers, this post is the summary of all the problems you have currently in the game, i really recommend to read it and consider it. If you think and act in every especific point of this post, i swear you will have the community and your clients pleased with this actions.
Keep it up and don’t give up! New World have the potency of be one of the best mmos of all time, but you need to polish some things.
Nice post @Halcyon.
I can tell, despite the fact that you come across pissed on many of your posts lol, that you really do like the game deep down.
It does show a lot of promise. For what its worth, i do believe there is sufficient evidence to suggest they are listening to our feedback. They see the numbers just as we do. Its just going to take a lot of time. I imagine they have a balancing act going on, including new content(theres nothing to do) and core fixes(remove orbs, return of stagger).
On that last one, and i know its a topic you are the champion of, i agree with your views on combat and i personally wouldnt mind them going back to that - do you think maybe they moved away because if you make the skill level of the game too high, it will turn a lot more people away?
I believe in its potential.
Absolutely. New World was their final hope after all the games that failed, and so they wanted to make it as accessible as possible.
Accessibility is a good thing, but not if you lower the skill-cap to keep things “fair” for everyone. They’ve also mostly failed to make any challenging content. Tempest is a good solid start, I still see people struggle with basic mechanics like basic tank fundamentals (not spinning the boss around and keep it pointed away from the team) and dodging attacks/not standing in fire.
It’s one thing to make the game accessible to all, but if you don’t create meaningful challenges (like Elden Ring) that respect players’ intelligence and challenges them with unforgiving mechanics, the playerbase will lose interest in PvE quickly, and the PvP will lack the depth to ever grow.
first off. I love your the design of your post and wish everyone employed this model when creating their posts. its just great.
referring to:
1 I did come up with a method that would prevent further base swapping in the lower territories and I suppose they could just not have base swapping in the north by removing faction missions up there because why would they have faction missions up there if there is no factions which was a dumb idea by someone. I digress. through a spike in player activity in the area base swapping would be a very difficult matter to coordinate. I propose a few gameplay modes that offer very entertaining functions to the game to contrast the current quests that someone was paid to design in a game focused around player vs player gameplay.
To set the parameters. the forts and tents are the primary focus of this discussion and should be populated with 10 npc’s respective to the territories level. the fort’s npc’s will ally with the faction that currently control the fort by way of controlling the most control in the territory progression bar and the tent will have 10 npc’s that will ally with the faction that has the second most control over the territory in the progression bar. The faction missions taken from the town reps should pay more and offer more territory control to keep a catch up function for multiple competitive factions competing over the same territory. faction reps should be spawned at the forts and tents as well in congruence to the faction that currently controls the fort or tents. However I also like the idea that the faction reps can be eliminated for a temporary hindrance, but I like the idea that they may be a chaotic neutral but are very difficult to kill say like a level 85 elite boss. If they intend to kill the rep they will have to earn it. The bases should be populated with 1 elite commander, 2 elite captains, 2 archers, 1 rifle-man, 2 swordsmen, and 2 Spearman. This opens up opportunities for assassination missions especially if the agro is increased but they also are more vulnerable to back stabs.
I’ve taken the liberty to divide the missions into two categories.
groupers (missions that rally players together, they dont pay much but can be done in rapid succession)
pullers (missions that pull players away from the forts and tents to stimulate a struggle, and they should pay more to discourage players form ignoring them)
THE CONVOY puller- team fortress two had an escort multiplayer mission where teams had to defend a cart and deliver it to its destination while the other team has to destroy it. I propose a multi caravan convoy that has to travel from the town to the fort or tent which would pull players away from the fort or tents for a certain amount of time. however the enemy faction has to destroy all 3 caravans to prevent a victory. one caravan should have a war horn, one should have a turret and one should have a cannon completely usable.
SABOTAGE grouper- in 3 minutes, teams have to defend the fort while the others have to attempt to tamper with the forts defenses. with visual smoking effects for the already affected equipment. total sabotage of all the equipment is required for victory while defending teams have to repair the equipment.
DEMORALIZE THE ENEMY grouper- capture the flag between the fort and tent its been tried tested and has held its own for decades as a standard multiplayer pvp game type. and is still more fun than holding position over a spot for 1.5 mins.
DOUBLE AGENT puller - intercept the defector, track and capture or eliminate the defector who is currently trying to flee the territory. take the intel carried by the defector and bring it back to your faction rep or take it to the enemy’s faction rep for no faction points but an increased monetary gain.
SPECIAL DELIVERY grouper - deliver a package of explosives to the enemy base. (Interacting with the munitions storage for 30 seconds to plans the bomb) fire works would be a nice touch to serve as a visual cue for nearby players to join the battle.
ASSASSINATE THE COMMANDER grouper - kill the commander
SUBTERFUGE grouper - deliver the fake orders to the corrupt faction rep without being detected by the guards.
FOOT PAD puller - circuit race, run and deliver a note to 4 destinations within the timer to receive a reward.
2 aesthetics do matter
players desire attire that conforms to their play-style but some high end gear might not match the ideal gear design through the mind of the player. a crafting mechanic where your visible design doesn’t match the stats of the gear you are cosplaying as is the very essence of customization. maybe you want to be a leather clad wearing archer but the stats dont compare to the voidbent armor. well if your crafting skill is high enough to make voidbent armor I see no reason why your voidbent armor cant look like your wearing leather armor.
3 resonance. agreed but its a year old. blah blah blah moving on.
4 piggybacking
lets not discourage the concept here. this kind of game hasn’t been done before and that is to say that it cant be done, just that no one has attempted doing it before. even guildwars 2 knew exactly that they wanted to be solely an mmo. the fact that this game even works how it does is nothing less than witchcraft and wizardry
5 interesting : fun
interesting concepts are something that we 90’s kids got to live out. new ideas that transitioned from one form of game to another. unfortunately the research has been developed and honed into such a fine edge that many companies don’t want to experiment anymore. this game has laid out its core game and now needs some derivatively creative ideas to implement into the game. society has proven time and time again that genuinely creative ideas aren’t receptive. but you are right that bloating a system isn’t the best choice
6 the shortest path is a straight line
yeah the zerg rushes are a huge problem but I think this issue coincides with the matter of crafting not being a higher priority on the list. when the effectiveness of acquiring the best items is to simply run out there and find the weapon rather than getting a high enough level to craft it yourself than thats when we have a problem. if the dropped items arent nearly as good as the crafting items or rather the crafting items had more variety and higher quality we would not be having zerg chest runs as much. having said that they can be fun to be a part of once in a while. so every patch there should be some catch up with the drops but crafting should take priority on that.
7 player expression
I have been looking and you might have been the second closest in similarity to my views on the matter. that of course doesn’t make us right or wrong but is just fun to think about. a more complex combat system would be just what this game needs. by combining spells or abilities or interrupting basic or charged attacks with spells with time specific windows we could have a very fun and challenging combat system. back in patch 1.2 we were able to lunge with the void blade and interrupt that move with oblivion to dash forward for the durration of the animation of casting oblivion. it was fun going across chasms in the shattered mountains at its thinnest points especially when some high level was trying to pk you. but it was also challenging because it took proper timing to accomplish that. too early and you stand there and cast oblivion. to late and you just cast oblivion. both events you probably would find yourself plummeting yourself into the pits and get to run for your life from a horde of angry demons and ghosts that are on fire for some reason. its that same mechanic that allowed the bow to be rapid fired which is why it pissed off a large number of players but if that could be physically programed in to each weapon in such a way that it didn’t break the combat system. the game would be in a much better place.
8 the devils in the details
yes the hidden details are great. this is also a pit fall for loosing focus on what is important which is the interesting : fun ratio because yeah that hippo on the halo shotgun shells are neato they dont really add to the experience of the game. its the agency of the player behind the act of doing the missions. why are they going to be interested in doing the quest? is there a compelling NPC that is with them along the way. is there a reason why that NPC has to stay behind and have you do everything for them? what is at stake if the player ignores the quest? will this decision come up later in the game? most importantly was the quest fun and engaging?
9 Ownership might be a rehash of #7 so i’m going to avoid it
this might be a much later date but there could be martial are techniques that change the way that weapons are handled ie changing the animations. some patterns might be better at attacking the head but move slower where some are great at blocking/parrying and other patters are just there to dish out the damage. maybe you have to do a questline for a specific master before you can learn the particular fighting style. I would love to have this game have a zui quan fighting style in the game learned from a master in ebonscale it would be great.
10 the amount of hand holding in the game is borderline helicopter parenting
this game is big but there is a bad quest that leads you to every square inch of the game. when the next territories unlock. there should be some mystery for the player to explore on their own. similar to black reach in skyrim you can just run through it and chase the way point or you can explore and find that there is so much more to the place than the game blatantly shows you.
11 pleasing everyone means pleasing no one.
I have to say im the opposite on this one. I hate that I love this game. I hate that it has a decent story hidden behind lazy quests and notes found all over the map rather than playing the player into a game of nuance and intrigue where players want to meat that interesting npc and know that the quest was made with passion and care rather than go here and kill/collect 1-15 things. I hate that I have to say this game will succeed more if the devs ignored the players because most of them only want to comment on the double xp and gear drops and weapon balancing. they desperately need to focus on their mid game rather than their end game. because thats what is going to get them initial sales and revenue to which then they can hire people to help out with the end game and expansions.
12 dont design to prove you can do something.
if what is required is something you dont know subcontract. its that simple. the old hobbiest adage still stands true. why hire someone else when I can pay 3 times the cost to do it myself and take 3 times the time in doing it.
13 making the grind fun
very wise words. there is no excuse for the fort capture other than it was pushed aside during development. yeah king of the hill can be fun as a game pvp game type but when thats the only pvp gameplay to capture the fort, thats something a student in game development would be expected of as a lab. there is no sugar coating on this one. I can almost forgive the malicious compliance when people just demanded “we want more quests” and they complied with that to the very letter. but when you start your game development as a pvp game and begin to transition from the pvp into an mmo and your best attempt at the fort capture is standing in a circle for 5 minutes…
14 being blunt with info
dont know much on this moving along
15 design the component the audience is intended for
you make mention of the PVE being fairly decent. but when it boils down to some pvp mechanics I can safely say that there is much to be desired when it comes to the agro of the NPC’s why is it that animals in the game will attack you on site when your at the same level as you but if you are over 10 levels higher than them, they will let you walk up to them and spit in their face. I find this very frustrating and many people I’ve talk to about this have agreed. the humanoid enemies are even worse. where no one sounds an alarm at a fort when you are attacking or trying to sneak in and get caught. instead the radius is so small that if you avoid the pathways you can pretty much find your target with little to no effort. this is a problem with return trips for players that want to try a new approach to an old area they have visited before which would further the gameplay experience. there is not much love for stealth gameplay enthusiasts in mmos but new worlds had built a platform that can very easily support it with a few conditional tweaks.
16 be more afraid of boring your players.
ever wonder why the town doesn’t get attacked? why are we repairing the crafting booths anyways. no one is attacking them. when they say the town is getting attacked and you will loose everything if your faction cannot defend against them, im expecting demons and corrupted running over the hill and charging with players yelling oh my god! the sheer panic of it all. similar to players aggroing bosses in world of warcraft into the middle of stormwind. I want to see that in the towns. remove that no attacking pvp block passive mode in towns. I want to see people suffer increasing financial penalties for killing players in towns. actual reprecussions.
17 you dont need to change much to change everything.
upping the back stab and aggro for NPC’s below 10 levels so players can fulfill their inner sam fisher/ solid snake tendancies.
18 restrictions breed creativity
much like the leaning tower of tents. the players sometimes shouldn’t be punished for their creativity. especially when it takes hours to prepare and its no surprise by the time its finished and comes into fruition. thats just the players having fun with your game. at some point society forgot what fun was in games. remember making a team totem pole in counterstrike and it worked for maybe 3 kills and then someone threw in a grenade. that was a great day wasn’t it. remember when you realized you could get on top of the map with blood gulch and snipe everyone but everyone could snipe you. fun the first time in mario 64, you accidently triple jumped mario and accidently fell through the painting. fun. imagine if the devs cut that out from the game because everyone screamed “exploits!” keep things competitive but dont forget the fun.
19 your audience is good at finding problems and bad at solving them.
yeah I have to agree with that. I would think that having a positive or negative vote on someones post would satisfy most of these posts. the comments might be reduced quite a bit if that was the case rather than seeing your right or your wrong 5000000 times in the comments. and the algorithm is already sourcing previous posts that are too similar and preventing some posts so why this isn’t implemented is a mystery that wont get solved probably.
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