The current state of STR melee weapons

AGS has yet to address the issue of STR melee weapons in the game.

Currently STR melee weapons are at the bottom of the barrel, they are outclassed by all other weapons in the game.

The only saving grace currently held by STR melee weapons is the CC that the hammer brings to the table during wars, though its a double edged sword, as in OPR, Open world, and duels, hammer is easily below even the great axe

So lets go over what makes STR weapons so bad currently.

APES SLOW TOGETHER

STR weapons have the slowest light attack, and ability animations in the game. allowing for non predictive dodging, its reactive dodging, rather than proactive dodging VS. these weapons. If you look at these weapons counter parts, such as dex melee weapons, or the voidgauntlet, these weapons have proactive dodging.

What this means, is that when dueling a non STR melee weapons, you have to dodge before they vaultkick / Scream / sweep, you have to predict it coming. if you were to dodge after the skill you have failed, and it will hit you. This allows for baiting stamina use vs other players, and baiting cooldowns.

With STR weapons, you can dodge after seeing the animation coming out, meaning no baiting stamina, and no baiting cooldowns vs other players. on top of this STR weapons have extremely slow light attack animations, so you cant even use those to poke at a target to try and make them do something.

STRENGTH NOT SO STRONG

STR weapons have some of the weakest ability damage skills in the game, with massive animation lengths, and nearly double, to even triple the Cooldown time of other weapons. That in conjunction with needing to be in melee range, makes playing STR weapons a damn near death sentence. while a spear user can cycle all three of his abilities 3 times, a strength users abilities will still be on cooldown, and still do far less damage with such draconic and restrictive cooldowns. A rapier user using a refreshing move weapon has access to all his cooldowns at all times, even 2 seconds after JUST using an ability.

STRENGTH NO MARATHON, STRENGTH NO SPRINT!

STR users do not enjoy any of the benefits that all other melee weapons enjoy in this game, which is stamina regen talents. Massive stamina regen, hyper mobility, both of these are crucial parts of melee user kits in every game. we do less damage, we do less damage less often, and we run out of stamina trying to do these things. Spear / Rapier / Hatchet all have stamina regen or reduction built into their kits so that they are able to stay on their targets, without it the weapons would feel bad, much as STR weapons currently do.

STAMINA TO DODGE? LOL STAMINA TO ATTACK!

STR weapons are the only weapons in game where your attacks are limited by your stamina bar, all other weapons in this game have one use, and one use only for their stamina bar, to evade incoming damage, or in the special case of light armor users, to try catch up with rapier / bow users.

not only do we have to weave a dodge in between every attack, we have to evade incoming attacks. Do you see how this is flawed at the very core? we literally have to choose between staying close to a target, or mitigating damage. all ranged classes use stamina to evade damage. All dex users have an infinite amount of stamina and can use it to pursue, evade, and bait with no consequences.

STR users are limited by stamina, dex users are not, int users are not, focus users are not. in conjunction with our predetermined use of stamina, we also lack to the tools to stay on our target, and lack the tools to mitigate damage while being in the forefront of the battlefield, eating all the AOE, fending off Dex users, and fending off other STR users. Beyond both out predetermined use of stamina, our inability to stay on a target once reaching it, we also have no escape tools. once you’ve reached your target you must play flawlessly, and have backup, otherwise the kill will not be achieved, and you will die (no stamina left, no escape, no mitigation tools)

THE RED ONES USED TO BE MY FAVOURITE!!

STR weapons are becoming outclassed patch after patch, it feels horrible to play. I used to play OPR all day, but now I find myself logging off at the thought of subjecting myself to voidblades shredding me to pieces 1v1, muskets 3 shotting me from render distance, rapier users (80% of the player base) kiting me indefinitely, Icegaunlet dysncing me so badly that i teleport 4-5 times before the game can place me where im “supposed to be”, icegauntlets icespike → heavy attack 2 shotting me, bow users with hypermobility, short cooldowns, and a rapier backbar incase i manage to get to them.

lets face it. STR weapons are dead outside of war, every other weapon outclasses these weapons hands down no contest in every single way possible. more cc, more damage, more stamina regen, hypermobility, better damage from range, faster attacks, lower cooldowns, faster ability animations, stronger core abilties without talents, and stronger skill mods through crafting.

The Hammer was meant to Lockdown targets once you got to them, the hypermobility inflation being ramped up patch after patch has nullified this weapons purpose outside of massive zerg fights.

The Great axe was meant to get to, and stay on targets, it was the one STR weapon that had the core feature of “go hunt down that ranged player” it has lost that due to massive overwhelming nerfs slapped onto the great axe in a knee jerk reaction to players complaining about the lunge on a weapon…thats whole purpose was to hunt down mobile targets. To add salt to the wound, the length of time it took for AGS to respond to these complaints was so severe that by the time weapon breaking nerfs came out…people had discovered the weapon wasnt really bad at all, and that there was many ways to counter it. The meta had just started to be created, people were just finding out how to play, people were just starting to get “geared”, and then this devastating patch drops that annihilated a weapon from the game.

currently the warhammer and great axe only see play in 1 place in an effective manner. war. both weapons are coveted for their 1 trick pony skills. Grav well and shockwave.

I think I can speak for all STR users that we would give away grav well in a heartbeat for some more lunge distance, our crit back, our base damage back, and some speed on bloodlust again.
let us play the game, dont let the game play us ( GRAV WELL ON POINT! GRAV WELL AT BONFIRE! GRAV WELL ON THEIR HEALERS!!!) we want dynamic gameplay…not gravwells. we dont care about grav wells. we want to be useful outside of grav well.

PS. dont even get me started on the dysnc, thats a whole other can of worms.

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you being serious right now?

  • sure animation is slow but you do 2x the damage of most other classes while having grit.
  • yeah dodging is a universal problem right now as its the best defensive ability in the game. that has nothing to do with the classes and more to do with the fundamental design of the game.
  • you dont have the choppies of abilities but you have CCs for days. your point on rapier is worthless as a rapier CD reduction only goes to escape moves right now as blood tree is hot garbage
  • yeah stamina and dodging needs an overhaul for light medium and heavy + perks and skills/passive
  • everyone has to weave and dodge. we have to weave and dodge past every PoD wrecking ball sweep vault kick everything or we die.
  • war and holding points in opr is where you should be brawling. not chasing ranged dps on those stupid mountains that shouldnt be climbable.

i dont think you should speak for all of them buuuuuuuuut yeah.

this would be great.

its extremely specific to classes, and highlights the the disparity of dodges between melee users, STR users, ranged users, and rapier users

youre downplaying it, the slow animations allow for the use of a dodge way after its been used, or before its been used, giving 2 options of denials vs 1 skill with just the push of your dodge key. no other class is like this. you want to dodge that vault kick? you better see it coming.

as i said in my post. its predictive dodging, vs reactive dodging, one allows for the baiting of stamina and cooldowns, the other does not. STR losses hard here.

yes, and i never said people dont have to weave and dodge, ill fall back to reactive vs proactive doding again here, there’s a large difference, and that large difference is the animation times. take sweep for example, EXTREMELY fast, you have to predict it. wrecking ball on the other hand you can blow your whole stamina bar and use an ability before it lands. so not only does it do less damage, have a longer cooldown, have 5-6x the animation time, but you can reactively dodge it.

I think youre missing the point im laying out here =)

not true at all, any medium armor bruiser fighting on point is dead, when its time to collapse and take the point sure thats fine, but you dont spend time there otherwise. youre running circles around point looking for clumps of mages and healers, and peeling for your mages and healers.

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Must be why half the players are still rocking axe and hammer…

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One of the biggest problems for melee users is the amount of effort/commitment it takes to catch up to a dex user. If I get to him, he should be dead (or very close to it). No excuses…But am i rewarded for getting there and “locking” my opponent down. HAHAHAHAHA

DO I EVEN NEED TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE HERE?

See Devs you have given them all an invincibility “Get out of jail free” card. Yes you know it…

So anyway, no point in trying to catch them as they just rinse and repeat the process until I am the one who is dead…Pretty cool system…

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GA and Hammer are great to play in a team…Not solo

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I feel the same way about fire and ice. Not every set is going to be perfect for every situation. :slight_smile:

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Frankly we are reaching Not The Onion levels of “You’re joking, right? Oh you aren’t…”

As a former Dex player I now play GA/Hammer and currently learning healer too…I find if you have 2 very skilled GA players vs dex/rapier you can bait the repost and get him as he escapes…Single GA cannot do this…Then there is ice/vg hmmmmm

lol.

5-man GA/WH teams queue up in OPR are unstoppable when they flank and attack together. These players are 620+ GS so they Wrecking Ball, Shockwave, and heavy attack kill any light armor player. GA can reach and stop targets. My ass it’s bottom of the barrel.

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Yes as a team…you said it

1v1 you would be stronger vs GA/Hammer imo

I’m a healer. Unless I land every hit, they can snap a potion and my damage is gone. lol

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I’m leveling my healer build now…Got the will of ancients so i figured I’d learn…Beacon is pretty good perk, i like healing without the pots…Had open world pvp with a hatchet bow user and it took him forever to kill me haha

Weird how the dueling weapons are stronger in 1v1s. It’s almost like the strength archetype supports a zone control juggernaut playstyle that isn’t meant to be the strongest in 1v1 situations or chase down ranged players in open fields. Almost like they synergize the best with healers and have an unmatched ability to stay on and control objectives.

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I don’t know if at this moment there’s any weapon combo that feels good.
Maybe IG/VG?
And Healers?

But besides that, everything else is a drag to play.

But if you think about it, STR actually has somewhat of an advantage in OPR & Wars, because you can just roll Medium or Heavy armor, and have very good defenses, while also doing very good damage.
And you’re actually an essential part of the team, because you can actually take points, if you have some healers and mages around.

If you don’t have big dick STR in the team, you’re gonna lose, whether it’s OPR or Wars, the only PvP content we have right now…

Best explanation ever…

It is, yes. Different loadouts have different strengths and different weaknesses. As a durable melee that synergizes with healers better than any other loadout, and which has AoE CC and damage, and which is the linchpin of both forms of meaningful PvP currently, and which can terrorize squishy duelists who choose to enter into your sphere of power, you have all those strengths but in exchange are weak to being kited and weak in 1v1 combat relative to the loadouts that have those as their strengths.

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