The dodge changes suck big time on mage and The devs need to address it asap

I am going to write this down as best I can to explain from a fire staff/IG users perspective on these changes. Please keep this in mind that i don’t use VG, but I will include it in some examples. These changes suck ass and need to be addressed and changed and I will explain why. Firstly most melee players not in light will complain they can never run down a light player, most of the time that’s true, but here is the thing, that’s not your job. This is a team game and every thing has a role to to fill, if you are playing medium or heavy, your job is to support the objective not chase down light players running away. Light players can go run down other light players, so let them handle it or make a light set and go run people down. Also there plenty of good players who can run down people even in medium using great axe with reap and bloodlust or sns/hatchet/great sword, its just more difficult but still very possible.

Next the issue with running down light players is mainly revolved around 3 or 4 weapons that are all dex scaling, Bow, Hatchet, Musket and Rapier. Bow and musket have perma haste with 0 internal cooldown, so its extremely easy for them to just run away due to these traits to begin with. Rapier isn’t as bad as it used to be since the nerfs but it still can be a get out of jail free card with fletch and evade. Hatchet has berserk which gives 20 percent haste and cleanses stuns, slows and roots and defy death. These 4 weapons typically are the most difficult to run down, the light roll specifically was never an issue, those 4 weapons on top of stam recovery, shirking energy, Dex passives and other stam regen perks all contribute to people being able to run away for ever, not the light roll, those weapons in medium have even more dodges its just stupid sometimes.

The light dodge was never that big of an issue by its self and without the dodge being effective light is damn near useless. People say light gets 20 percent more damage, ya it gets 20 percent more BASE damage. That means with 0 attributes selected, you get 20 percent increase of whatever the number on your weapon says. So you literally get a peanuts increased in damage. Light damage bonus only works on light players. You do significantly less damage to mediums and almost nothing to full heavy players, if every one went back to playing full heavy again like the early days light players would struggle to find a place outside stat padding clumps. A player in full heavy vs a player in light going the same build with attribute split will win 10/10 time in trades because of how much less damage they take, yet still hitting a light player for the full power of the weapon. The power of light armor comes from the dodge roll and being able to get in and out and trade more easily not the 20 percent base damage bonus. You guys have nerfed light and medium armor 3 times this year and the last one was just too much, especially on mages, Mainly on mages imo.

Mage weapons being IG,VG,FS,LS, out of these 4 weapons only void blade can apply the melee slow, literally nothing else does. Setting Life staff aside, the other 3 mage weapons have 18 total abilities and 13 out of those 18 are cast inside melee distance. We only have access to ice shower and Scream and a heavy freeze you have to use an ability then land a heavy attack to get a small root on someone. Fire staff has NOTHING, no utility, nada, zip, zero, none. The only thing FS has is burnout which is very slow and telegraphed.

People will argue that mage has scream and shower to root people. I Argue that is just laughable. Why? let me explain. Both those abilities are melee distance, they aren’t long range, so you often times are being attacked by melee players or just accidently get hit by someone with a melee weapon thus gimping your dodge and making you walk like a clown for 1.5 seconds while screams root is 2 seconds and has a short stagger and ice shower is 1 second. The majority of people run 3 freedom minimum, making these 2 abilities roots last even shorter yet your gimped dodge is still a 1.5 second with 0 diminishing returns, so most of the time they are out of these roots before your walking like a clown ends and goes back to normal. On top of that, lets say I use an ice shower on a melee person, they didn’t tag me, I am starting to run away, almost every single if not all melee weapons can just get right back on top of you. I cast shower, get a melee player stuck here is what they can do… great axes can just cast reap and pull me back to them, they can cast charge or a grav or use fortify whirlwind zooming after you . Swords can cast leaping strike or shield rush. Rapiers can cast fletch and evade or even flurish n finish and land 2 staggers in the process. Spears can cast skewer or vault kick or even throw a jav and hit you manage to get decent distance. Hatchet can cast feral rush or social distance and even use berserk which cleanses slows and roots and zoom back to you, Hammers the only melee weapon with 0 mobility but it can cast Path of destiny which is a ranged stagger and slows you due to after shock and it still makes you walk and gimps your dodge. Great sword can use relentless rush which would cleanse all slows and roots off the caster and can give them haste while also slowing and rooting the target they hit and apply the dodge slow, it can also cast steadfast strike and roaring rupture or skyward slash that has mega teleportation powers and a hitbox way bigger than it should. All the melee gap closers are instant cast and some have grit and some have CC attached to it as well while burnout( the only mage gap closer) takes almost 1 second to cast and can be very very easily interrupted. Sometimes you have to dodge 2 or 3 times if you have hearty, to try to get a safe cast. Great axes players can literally be in a terrible spot and just cast charge and zoom out of a fight to reset.

All these melee weapons literally can get out of the IG/VG roots extremely quickly and be back on top of you almost instantly sometimes while gimping your dodge while slowing or staggering you in the process and then making you walk in place like a complete idiot. Melee players can literally take 5 or 6 abilities than all have a stagger or stun attached. Several great sword abilities you have to double dodge just to avoid the broken hitbox because it will literally teleport after you even if you dodge and take a few steps. The gap closers melee have are far better than the only one mages have. Burnout might go further but it still takes too long to wind up with how much melee CC spam can be done and how easily they can catch up.YOU ONLY HAVE 2 DODGES, 3 if you are using TOMB. Sometimes there isn’t anything you can do to get away. Literally nothing. You can be the best player in the world and die because of these changes not because the other player is vastly more skilled than you, but because you literally can’t dodge far enough to break honing on light attacks or abilities and they can keep you perma slowed by left clicking. So many melee weapons apply slows through auto attack chains or even through multiple abilities, on top of applying the melee slow and gimped dodge. Nothing a mage will do will make you walk like a clown except for void blade, but no one really uses void blade and if you are FS/IG like me then you literally have 0 way to apply this dodge slow mechanic while melee users can run normal speed, and dodge normal distance at all times while having access to 5 or 6 CC abilities. The melee slow and a normal slow stack, making you walk ever slower and dodge even shorter, at least it certainly feels this way. sometimes you literally almost roll in place and walk so slow you are moving like a snail, walking slower than the RP walk. So when leaping strike is cast, it staggers you and slows you and gives you the melee slow and gimps your dodge. They can literally just spam light attacks after and you can never get away unless you have peel from your team or they make a mistake. Cast ice shower? they will just shield rush you into shield bash, or swap to there back bar which lately is typically great sword or hatchet. Cast burnout? well they can easily interrupt it… your only real option is to cast tomb and wait for the slows to be be cleansed then try to dip and get out and reset, blowing them up before they kill you. Kiting is never a real option anymore, since you walk so slow and can’t dodge, you are better off just staying and trying to win the 1v1, but if you need to try to play your life its just incredibly more difficult compared to other weapons.

These changes have increased the skill ceiling so high on mage players alone. Its not a fair fight, soon as you get hit by a melee weapon you are at a disadvantage, Both parties can slow, both parties and root, but mages don’t make melees walk like a clown and gimp your dodge and also have less staggers, melees can literally run 5 or 6 and mages at max can take 2, scream and spike. There is 0 excuse why a light melee player and even medium can have 5 or 6 CC abilities on their hot bar at one time and also still be able to apply this slow and gimped dodge. I know people will say, well you can just W key and run away from melee auto attacks which is a reasonable thought, but I don’t feel any sympathy at all what so ever when you can run 5 or even 6 CC abilities. I don’t see how its justified to give this crutch of a mechanic to melee players on top of all the CC they have available to use. The only thing I can see as reasonable is heavy players can apply this slow but even then I think its a bit much. These changes are just awful and unfun. extremely frustrating to deal. This has made melee even more oppressive and nothing about these players skill has changed, just way mechanics in the game work to give them a free handout. Light dodge was never an issue by itself.

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The melee slow really doesn’t seem to impact all players the same. Some players seem completely crippled when hit by melee, but others seem unaffected by the melee slow. I don’t know what’s the difference between the two groups. They don’t seem to be doing anything different.

Do you have low frames per second or stuttering, 16 GB of ram or less or maybe a high ping?

I don’t really see what this has to do with making your dodge distance so short you don’t even break tracking on light attacks or just melee honing in general. Or the fact you literally RP walk when you get struck by anything melee for 1.5 seconds with 0 diminishing returns. And having 0 way to apply this same mechanic back at a melee player so they can feel my pain and put us on even ground in terms of movement.

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I’m saying not everyone has the same response, so I think there might be something else going on that it impacts certain players more than others. I’ll melee some people and they have no chance of escaping no matter what they do. Other people arnt even bothered by it. They can just hold W and walk away.

Ya idk man, I just think the changes in general are awful and i think i put up a really good argument as to why from a fire staff/IG perspective.

I don’t think the changes are awful but I do agree that mages, especially those in light feels it the worst.

I think the players that dodge rolled willy nilly and depended on the distance of the roll to keep them safe more than the timed iframe pre BS are also in that camp.

I PvP’d mostly in heavy pre BS so the 1.75s turtle walk on hit is very familiar to me. I felt like a sitting duck with no way out when things got dicey. The change that made that duration only 0.5s for heavy was a great change. It makes heavy feel like it shirks off attacks which seems on theme. So if we’re talking about the change as a whole, definitely not awful.

I decided to play more light after BS and the change didn’t seem to warrant the response it got. But I play melee mostly and I wasn’t already spoiled by having that “melee slow” mechanic completely negated by the dodge rolls.

When I play mage I find the lack of mobility abilities to be the main issue. If you run entomb it helps because it offers you some level of disengage. Burnout is nice but not when it’s interrupted.

I’m eager to see the balance changes coming. Hoping for the best.

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I dont agree. I think mele should be able to catch up light armor user as long as he is also light armor user.

Infitnite kiting ability like bow had before rapier and light armor doge nerf - should not be a thing.

You have solo arena game, solo open world encounters. This is not team based pvp.

Mate, I said melees not in light will complain about not being able to catch up… hello?

Yea sry. My bad. But they can catch up. Mele has lot of movment skills. And all range does have slow after attack.

I’m hoping the armor weight changes address the issue I’m talking about but idk, still handful of people talk about light being OP and I wouldn’t be surprised if they completely killed it. I think the game is fine to play on any other weapon combo except mage weapons. The dodge slow is just terrible and we can’t even apply the slow to at least make it an even fight. It’s just dumb, needs to change.

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I experience this as well. Some players i can left click hatchet and stick like glue no matter where they roll. But certain players (maybe with better ping or framerate) can just press W and get away.

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TLDR: Mages are getting clapped still.

This, while using light gear for bow I can’t get away from crap after being struck by melee, when using light gear SnS (melee), I’m able to get away easier and even from multiple people.

The ironic thing is my bow gear is way better, almost BIS. It has 3 freedom, 5 resilience and 4 shirking fortification .

My SnS is epic/legendary combined. It has 4 resilience, 3 shirking fortification, 1 freedom.

I don’t use shirking energy on either and both builds have 110 stamina and the exact same stamina recovery necklace.

So why can I escape easier with SnS then Bow with dodge rolling is beyond me.

Light is ridiculous . As someone said it’s not a team game. Ive been defending outposts and light users almost can escape everything. it’s ridiculous. They also kill you with bow from 4-5 metres before reaching them.

That’s not a light armored problem. That is the bow having a 25% haste problem.

They should remove haste from bows/muskets.

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My KD is almost identical pre/post patch in OPR as FS/IG. One major difference? I swapped to using pylon (with pylon burst) because it has melee slow built in. If you can’t beat them? Join them lol.

It’s zero skill gameplay, but the added slow can make a huge difference in group fights, and allows me to get away pretty consistently. I used to play very aggressively vs pretty much any build, it now requires more kiting and finesse, and most importantly, never getting hit by a single melee attack.

If I get hit by anything more than a single melee left click, I am ice showering and/or entomb’ing and scrambling to reposition, until my dodge distance timer goes back down to normal. The most important thing is not getting hit to begin with, or taking evasive action during your dodge distance nerf (after being hit by melee, use abilities rather than dodge immediately thereafter).

That is a big ass WoT… o.O’

Also, since when did they give a flying dolphin about mages?

I know how to play the game, that doesn’t change how much more of an advantage melee players have and how much more difficult mages have it from these specific changes.

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Yeah, not sure what the balance logic is behind perma-haste to ranged weapons. In games like dota2 - ranged units generally have a slower movement speed to keep the game balanced, and rely on spells/items to kite the enemy. So they have to play more careful when kiting spells are on Cooldown. Right now bows just run around 25% faster than everyone.

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yeah exactly, and which weapons area always the most common running away that people can’t catch??? the dex weapons… but hey lets nerf light armor into the ground rather than tweak passives in side weapon trees that let people run away forever. these guys are so clueless man, its unbelievable. Like when the dev talked about the musket “nerfs” last patch and said we are aware they didn’t work… like were you not aware when you put them on the ptr??? because the majority of people figured it out rather quickly yet the devs literally did nothing and patched into the game making muskets even stronger… like just clueless game devs. I am sorry if I offend the devs but idk I feel like its justified.

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