The new PVE UNDERCLASS, why did the Devs choose a side?

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581

Agree. I also agree that they should incenticize owpvp, but they went the completely wrong way. Instead of giving ow-pvp players a bonus that would help in pvp, they made a bonus that helps in pve.
And as long as people sell and work around the same tradeposts → pve players, that do not want to engage in pvp, feels forced to flag to get this bonus.
gatheringgear+flagbonus → ~2x higher chance to get rares.

People want to be efficient with what they do, so people flag up but do not want to pvp.
This leads to pve players quitting or flagging up to gather and then just run when getting attacked in pvp.
This or you just meet alot of flagged players running gathering rounds that ignore eachother.
The only players that wants to engage in pvp over gathering are the griefers that want to lurk and camp gathering routes for easy kills. This is not a good thing imo.

The thing people keep claiming that you can’t pvp with harvesting gear must all have 600gs with god-rolled stats, else it wont impact them much from having 1 perk taken up by harvesting luck on their gear. Hint, they dont have god rolled gear but tries to make a non-valid point.

luck on flagging makes it so that the dominating faction will be more dominating due to always having the option of running flagged without risk.

Also the namecalling from the so called “pvpers” is not helping the game thrive.
But pvp-communities are usually like this with many fragile egos.

582

As soon as you put yourself in direct conflict with another player frustration is inbound. PvP players live with this.
You win you were better. You lost the opponent was better.
You were worse than your opponent. No one needs to say it, you know it. And it’s frustrating.
What evens this out is the excitement that only comes when fighting a real player and not AI.
But the frustration exists and has consequences, toxicity, salt and all the seasoning you need and more.
I understand that PvP players may seem rash and blunt but we are not bad people.

I think the risk reward of being PvP flagged is good and even PvE players can feel some of this excitement. Like you said you can opt out for just running away. And you have every right to do so. If you run to town and some dude comes after you sreamming “coward and terms alike” he is the one in the wrong. He lost the chase. You win and got to safety. You just won your duel :slight_smile:

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583

ppl still crying about devs trying to make ppl flag for pvp ? wtf guys

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584

Agree, the tl:dr version of my view is that owpvp should have incentives, but not loot/gather luck as it is now :slight_smile:

585

Games dead anyway :slight_smile:

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586

I always thought PvP was about the thrill and the challenge what with everyone wanting people to PvP. Interestingly enough no-one actually wants to PvP - they all just want the bonuses.

I bet if they added 10% luck for not flagging - no-one will flag. Ergo no-one wants to PvP for the fun of doing PvP.
PvP isn’t about the challenge any more. Its only about the rewards for being flagged.

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587

When you wrote that it made sense to you right?
Does it still make sense when you read it now after you post it?
Because it makes no sense to me.

I thought people chopped trees for fun. Guess what ! They want the wood.

I thought people just wanted the wood but guess what, they are always trying to find a better axe. Give sickles 200% wood yield and people will use a sickle to chop down a tree!

Ofc people want to :

  1. Do something they like.
  2. Feel rewarded for it.
  3. Even risk vs reward of the action.

Both in PvP and pve, a great example is the elite buff. The risk of death+time consumption isn’t worthy of the reward (sometimes nothing, sometimes potions) .

So the notion of efficiency and risk vs reward affect both PvP and PvE. Are these terms foreign to you?

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588

Yes, that is the premise. But it isn’t flawed. If you spend 5-10 minutes running to a gathering spot or running a route and you get killed then that is 5-10 minutes you aren’t gathering and that you have most likely lost the route completely. That is 5-10 minutes more solid gathering that a luck geared, food buffed PvE gatherer is making progress. If someone else is on the route then they just skip ahead while that player is harvesting and it is still not a total loss.

The assumption that PvP gathering is generally more efficient relies on the flagged player being uninterrupted. And that is not the experience the OP described. They described constant ganking and conflict. Which is a major hit to efficiency and diminishes the value of the buffs.

And you need to remember that every obstacle with gathering a PvE player has (a “swarm of gatherers” in your example) also applies to and compounds with PvP specific obstacles. For example, you mention being forced to a new location. A PvE player just moves. A PvP player could also be ganked in that process and have to start over back in town which is again a net loss in efficiency.

A PvE player can purchase that 2000 luck food, has the freedom to scout an uncontested location and achieve 30 minutes of uninterrupted fully buffed gathering. A PvP player cannot.

Every second a PvP player has to spend in combat with another player, hiding, running from spawn or carefully relocating is a gathering deficit versus unflagged players that a passive buff reduces over time.

589

A couple different things.

1)Choosing to spend less time gathering, because you prefer a different type of gameplay, should not yield better results at gathering.

Each type of gameplay should be rewarding in a way that is consistent with its gameplay/progression. The reward for gathering while flagged should = reward for winning at pvp + the reward for time gathering(not time pvping). Not gathering power +3000

the problem with the second path is it makes being good at gathering require pvp flag.

Gathering is a specific type of gameplay that gets access to specific items. It has its own progression systems and rewards. Its fine to reward owpvp, but why specifically create a reward that messes up the whole progression of gathering?

  1. dying when you are in the wrong area (because players are there and have gathered everything) doesnt waste more time, in fact it can probably save you time. Because the most efficient thing is to leave the area as fast as possible. Also note that where you port to on death is based on where you camp/set respawns.

3)the pve player gains no time, they would have to leave the area anyway to be efficient.Your assumption is that death= lost time, but thats not really true because there is no effective difference in nodes hit per 30 minutes if the nodes are taken by a pve player or a pvp player, dying isn’t costing you time, you weren’t going to gather anything there anyhow.

  1. your response claims that the time you spend playing pvp should be rewarded in gathering items, but where have you shown that the cost= +3000 free rol? 3000 rol in game has an extremely high value. what justifies that much of a boon? The reward far outweighs the cost.
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590

The forum is so fucked I don’t know if that reply was meant for me.
Point 4. Doesn’t make much sense.
I still think flagged bonus should be seen as a flat increase due to risk. Imagine if you could have a red flag that made you enemies with every1, even current faction. But gave you 40% buff instead.
In my eyes this makes sense ( I know it doesn’t in yours).

About the time lost, you are right on some instances. But it definitely makes you loose time in other situations.
Yesterday I was going out for some gathering, found some dude mining starmetal. He was on the first node. I started hitting him from afar to keep him from finishing the ore. When I got close I killed him and took all the ores myself.
Would you say he didn’t loose time?

591

Short-sighted and narrow minded people are in masses among “gamers”. Its nothing unusual to be frank and we can life with it.
usually I ignore threads like this silly rant.
The change to buff pvp flagging has a meaningful reason and makes sense.
PvE players already enjoy a free and easy 30% gathering buff by wearing gathering gear and not worry about being killed.
PvP people need to decide: do I want to be competitive and have a chance while flagged but have no chance on rare items whatsoever (u need a certain threshold for legendary drops) or do I want to be killed in 2 hits while gathering in farm gear?
This buff was necessary.

If you cant comprehend that you lack insight and brain cells to see the bigger picture in game mechanics and video game development.

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592

When I paid money and invested time in this game it was advertised and sold to me on the basis that it’s a PVE/PVP mix. If the PVP players are prepared to pay a monthly subscription so that AGS can compensate many of us for the mis-selling of a PVP-centered game then fine!

Also - anyone noticed the death nell for the game that is a lack of new players who’ll backfill the leavers working their way through the early zones (often in PVE mode as soloing PVP at that level is suicide)? For those new players who are then finding the town facilities degrading and contagion blocking many areas/quests it must be frustrating.

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593

You are trying to use some very specific circumstances to prove something always false when it is generally true. A death is a loss of time, virtually always. Even more so for dying involuntarily. People that want to death teleport can aggro mobs or drown themselves. They don’t flag and then run around hoping someone kills them at a convenient time. That entire argument is nonsense. No one getting ganked while gathering is being done a favor.

Another assertion you are trying to make is that each facet of character progression exists in a vacuum. And that is also false. Everything feeds into everything else. PvP players gather to refine and craft to keep up in a gear race to claim territory to upgrade to provide bonuses for…gathering and crafting. It is not a “specific part of gameplay” it is part of the basic gameplay loop that all players participate in. Even if we venture down your line of thinking as a thought experiment, gathering “progression” is dictated by trade level, which goes up with XP based on the node type. There is no bonus XP associated with rare mats from the node or yield. So flagged or unflagged, progression in the trade is the same for everyone; if anything, PvP players progress slower over time because, again, they can be killed reducing their nodes/hr.

Lastly, that is not how luck works. We know how luck works. That 3000 just extends the slider to the right adding more possible drops to the loot table. You still rely on a random number to decide if you get a rare mat or not. There is still a likelihood that a PvE player gets more rare mats in ten minutes than a flagged player gets in thirty because luck does not remove the rng.

I don’t think you realize that what you want is the same thing you are accusing AGS of doing. You want to force everyone to PvE and use specific gear and specific food to gather higher tier materials. The flat bonus allows PvPers to wear the gear they need to and use utilities they to to survive PvP while still having some efficacy in gathering. That is it. I am sure numbers will go up and down as data is collected and PvP vs PvE gathering will come into alignment. But wanting to handicap a certain type of player because you don’t play that way and you feel handicapped by a change that better enables them to participate is extraordinarily hypocritical.

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594

I am right there myself. I see no future in this game for me. I just don’t. I haven’t logged on in days because whatever excitement I had has simply dried up. I keep coming here hoping for some reassuring news that my kind of play is going to be supported. I have found otherwise.

As a casual player, I haven’t leveled everything up. I do other things than just play this game - Currently I have a strange feeling I should apologize for not making this game my priority - as it’s been weeks now and I am not at top levels of everything. I feel punished for my play preference. I feel unwelcome.

All are NOT welcome here.

It is utterly ridiculous for Devs to take a side between PvP and PvE. If you wanted to have ONLY PvP play, you should never have advertised this game as all inclusive. PvE is obviously become a bane to be punished rather than welcomed. Thanks, that says a lot to me.

I thought hanging around while things got sorted out would reinvigorate me - give me a reason to log on - because I believed in the Devs. I don’t anymore. They have made their side known. PvP will get goodness while PvE will get kicked in the face.

I get it, I am not welcome here. Lucky for me I have better things to do than waste my time in this game. Have fun with your PvP and the empowerment of toxic PvP players. This can be witnessed by this thread alone.

Oh, you Poor PvP players - us nasty PvE’ers keep “stealing your stuff” and we need to be forced to flag or ELSE! Yeah, I see it. It’s all over the boards. What are you going to cry about next - after all of us PvE’ers have been driven away? Because when you have to flag to do anything it’s just a PvP game. Get it?

Btw - I personally am sick of hearing anything about entitlement. The game should be fair for all of us. One side should not rule over the other. I am not entitled because I want to play a game the way I like to play a game - the description of this game said it was okay for me to play the way I wanted - it literally invited my style of play. It didn’t say I had to PvP to play this game. Therefore I had every right to assume I could play the way I wanted. This does not make me entitled. It makes me a stooge because I believed the description of this game.

Seriously, I can’t believe I’ve wasted the time I already have on this game and this community. I should have listened when the PvP players told us that this game was supposed to be PvP only. I’m sorry I thought otherwise. For this I do apologize to the PvP player base. You were right, I was wrong. The time and money I could have saved it only I had listened.

Thank you for posting vonSydow!

And thank you New Worlds Forums for letting me have this last moment to vent. I would say I enjoyed my time here… But its a toss up.

So Long and thanks for all the Fish!

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595

Well, I guess it’s for the best. I think the more players play the better. But if rewarding risk is so unnaceptable for some people then the best course may indeed be another game. Do you have any specific games in mind?

596

I wouldn’t worry about it, it seems pretty obvious by the lack of dev response on this, and the way they are merging all the topics on this into one tidy, easy to ignore thread, that they anticipated this temper tantrum by the small portion of PvE only players and planned to ignore it all along.

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597

You can also choose not to flag.

You want to flag for sport so have your sport. You can’t flag and then bitch about having to PvP?

598

Honestly I doubt players would care that much if a couple things were to happen, remove the stacking for harvesting gear and pvp flagging, it should be one or the other. There are way to many servers dominated by a single faction that have absolutely zero downside for said faction to flag so they stack both knowing they will NEVER have to be involved for pvp, now if you are now in said faction you are screwed.

Second problem is this killed doing mixed faction groups, so again, if you are not in the dominate faction no one wants to let you group, why should YOU drop thier luck when they are killing stuff just to let you farm?

I know the pvp players scream “COMPETITIVE” but it simply is not. I myself am on a server that if I ever see another purple player its a miracle, can no longer get into groups, no dungeons, no anything because the breakdown is 40ish green for 20ish yellow to 1 purple. Guess what the vast majority of those green are all flagged, yellow wont mess with them because they are puppet companies on alt accounts meant to win trade certain cities.

It is not fair in any way shape or form, and saying its a free gathing buff by wearing the gathering gear is insanely ignorant, how much does that gear cost? A hell of a lot more than just flagging on a faction owned server (that they can also buy and wear the same gear with no worry of actual pvp)

Now are you able to compete with people flagged with the same gear as they can pump out more good items to sell, and in effect buy more of that gear faster than you? If you are in an underdog faction simply put, you are screwed, you cant make much money from gathing since thats all being taken by the faction that owns the server, you cant pvp them because… yeah good luck 40 on 1, then it quickly becomes 80 on 1 then 120 on 1 as the pvp players surround like jackals griefing you since they get a rise out of making you quit. Cant tell you how annoying it is to get tells, and people in area/global/help/recruiting screaming FLAG YOU FU@@*NG PU@!@#, GAWD DAAAM F!))@(GG and other garbage consistantly always great when you cant see anything but people tying that.
Please stop saying that you are soooooo much more inconvienienced by flagging, you are not, you simple swap to a server that your faction owns and ignore it. that leaves pve players screwed and once again on the whims of PVP bs

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599

It would be fine if they removed all buffs from gathering gear both luck and gathering for pvp flagging, but as it is now, its a free riskless buff for most players that flag pvp. A free handout for whining the loudest :slight_smile:

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602

Actually I don’t have to play the game anymore either, which is where I’ve gone to after this. Enjoy the further loss of players that don’t like this new direction. Because I don’t this will be the last time they put in favoritism.

It was fine as it is, those that wanted to flag did. Those that didn’t want to flag didn’t, they got to play the game their own way without one having an advantage over the other. There was absolutely no reason to change that balance.

There was no gathering in DAoC. It was not a pure PvP game either, there was separated PvE and PvP zones. With the best gear dropping in PvE dungeons.

So you either never played it or have a very poor memory

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