That is not a solution at all. There are many players that don’t want to PVP at all. Why would they play a game that suddenly changes to PVP only?
We were not talking about a game that suddenly changes to PVP only, we were talking about NW Alpha that was a PVP-centric game. I am not mentioning the above as a solution to today’s NW problems, but as a solution to the problem that AGS tried to use as a justification to go full-on PVE.
too funny!! 
That’s 1 way.
They could always add shrines inside the Towns that link into PvP specific servers instead of having to use transfer tokens all the damn time. Let people freely decide where they want to play.
Outside of making PvP servers there’s always adding a second set of %'s in the skills specifically for PvP. Such as for example if an ability has 150% weapon damage scale in PvE it can have 100% or any different % weapon damage scaling in PvP instead of PvP “balancing” Screwing with PvE.
I’d like an Ironman PvP server. In which case if you die, you restart at Lv1.
For a laugh or 2, have 4 servers 1 in each region that have 0 recovery. IE: 0 Health potions, Regeneration potions, Mana potions, aand no life staff so we can throw in all the folks that complain so much about it in there.
I disagree. Casual PvP is something where you can be in and out in 20 min with minimal consequences for win or loss (like arena), that’s why all the Fortnite/Valorant etc are so popular. Full-loot pvp in a persistent world where your loss today affects what you do tomorrow is not casual in any way.
Again, I am not convinced. Rust/DayZ/EFT already have established communities and it is unlikely that most of those will abandon the games they are so invested in for some new MMO. Most of new players (like me) will read “full loot PVP” and not touch the game with the barge pole.
The perennial problem with pvp games is that people get invested in them much more than in PVE games, so the audience cannot be shared between different games as is the case with PVE. 3/4 of my FC in FFXIV plays GW2 or ESO between expansions, because most well designed PVE games do not require you to play it every day, unlike pvp games (EVE being exception where you can manage a lot of your activity via mobile app)
Yes, I agree that’s why I said the decision was correct, but the execution was extremely poor. Had they made Wildstar clone with better graphics they would be printing money right now.
CCP in 2000-2002 consisted of ~20 people (AFAIK) and total outlay was something like 2 mln ISK (remember times before EUR?) so they could afford to sell ~40k-50k copies and recoup all dev costs. AGS with its 500 employees in most expensive place possible is not in a same boat.
That I agree with. Right now it is a complete mess reminiscent of FFXIV 1.0 with its endless grinds, timegating and casual-unfriendly mechanics
Hang on, I missed the WoW release where they added a faction-based influence system, territory control and territory based conflict. When was that?
No of course not.
I bring up Wildstar because it was a PVE game with the fun active combat that also died because of stupid decisions.
Graphics (lighting especially) are NW strongest point. So if AGS focused on PVE and made a game similar to Wildstar, but of course with more accessible casual content, without stupid “HARDCORE RAIDZZZ” mentality, and using modern techniques like ping normalization, they would be printing money now.
EDIT: for those who are not aware: Wildstar instances were notorious for being hyper-sensitive to ping fluctuations. Spike of ~80-100 ms could easily wipe you (and by extension everyone because on veteran mode a single mistake was a wipe) and devs repeatedly refused to introduce ping normalization (buffering of damage client side) because “it can be exploited”.
I think at the time one of top streamers of Wildstar (zubak?) had to move closer to Dallas to actually be able to raid.
Contrast that with FFXIV which released 8 months earlier and had ping normalization to 200 ms out of the box so EU people can actually play on NA servers and vice-versa
I disagree. Casual PvP is something where you can be in and out in 20 min with minimal consequences for win or loss (like arena), that’s why all the Fortnite/Valorant etc are so popular. Full-loot pvp in a persistent world where your loss today affects what you do tomorrow is not casual in any way.
It entirely depends on what that loss represents. On top of that, they ended up changing the game entirely, so there was nothing keeping them from changing the full loot to inventory loot, or have an insurance etc. Overall it was not my point, my point was that the original excuse of the 180 change was just that, an excuse.
Again, I am not convinced. Rust/DayZ/EFT already have established communities and it is unlikely that most of those will abandon the games they are so invested in for some new MMO. Most of new players (like me) will read “full loot PVP” and not touch the game with the barge pole.
The perennial problem with pvp games is that people get invested in them much more than in PVE games, so the audience cannot be shared between different games as is the case with PVE. 3/4 of my FC in FFXIV plays GW2 or ESO between expansions, because most well designed PVE games do not require you to play it every day, unlike pvp games (EVE being exception where you can manage a lot of your activity via mobile app)
But if you won’t touch the game because it is written “full loot PVP”, others will. You assume Rust players won’t change game, but the players playing the 12 WoW clones will to play NW, a dumbed down version of any other PVE MMOG on the market today?
Also hardcore PVE games require daily involvement if you don’t want to fall behind. Haven’t touched one in years but I am sure this hasn’t changed.
Yes, I agree that’s why I said the decision was correct, but the execution was extremely poor. Had they made Wildstar clone with better graphics they would be printing money right now.
The whole point is that it started out as a PVP-centric game and that is my whole argument, not whether what AGS should have done or not at the beginning, but what it should have done once they had a game with a player base expecting that game. They should have stuck to what they had and they would probably have had less players at launch, but more players now that they are left with.
CCP in 2000-2002 consisted of ~20 people (AFAIK) and total outlay was something like 2 mln ISK (remember times before EUR?) so they could afford to sell ~40k-50k copies and recoup all dev costs. AGS with its 500 employees in most expensive place possible is not in a same boat.
First of all, while not good practice, Amazon can afford losing money. Secondly, AGS has 500 developers across many projects, some abandoned, some under development and unannounced.
My main grip is the change in direction to please a player base that they were obviously not going to please anyways, while keeping a semblance of an inkling of PVP to keep their original player base. They cash grabbed both groups and left both groups with nothing.
AGS with NW as a PVP-centric game had its chance, because it was a very casual “harcore” PVP game (and I have played most PVP-centric MMOGs for the last 20 years and developed MMOGs for the last 10 years). It was made very accessible, which is what most hardcore PVP games have never had - even successful games, such as Rust. The loss was never that bad because gaining items back was not that hard either.
From both alphas, they had a pretty unique game and a pretty unique approach to a PVP MMOG and I believe it would have had a good success.
My other grip is honestly that PVE players went into the alpha, complained about the game being PVP, got the game changed into PVE (or rather, AGS wanted to make more money), and then left anyways. Why? Because it was a PVP game in the first place, expecting it was going to become a great PVE games was a dream in the first place.
all “casual” arena pvp games have ZERO loss outside of time and rankings.
thats what makes it casual.
None of this is a core aspect of NW, it was kept to keep attracting some kind of PVP players, but it was really just a bone thrown at PVP players. Plus WoW - that I haven’t touched in many many years - used to have faction PVP (on certain servers?). I don’t know where it is at now.
The idea of controlling a territory that is yours but not really doesn’t bring anything to a game, something players quickly came to realize.
The main changes though ended up being a complete removal of open-world PVP and a complete turn towards PVE, including quests, instances and all the ridiculous time gates that they added to the game.
This can be said for all games (especially mmos). And that is the 1 million dollar question too. Who should the company listen to when people want one thing but others ask for the complete opposite? The forums are usually threads complaining and the ones that are happy usually don’t come to the forums and post.
All they can do is listen to feedback and decide what direction to. The problem is, since people who are happy who don’t post, these gaming companies don’t know then if changing something will be bad or not.
Obviously then there are things which I am willing to bet the greater majority can agree on here though.
Wait! You mean you can’t flag up and PvP in the open world? What patch that just dropped that I completely missed? OH! You mean there was a complete removal of forced flagging and the ability to kill anyone you felt like killing…yes, that ship sailed over 2 years ago.
Here’s the thing; Alpha 1 players found out very quickly that the game was changing all the way back in Dec 2019/Jan 2020 (and while you’re welcome to say AGS lied about the grief-fest, at the end of the day it was directly the fault of some of those Alpha 1 players), the 2020 and onward Alphas. Preview, and Betas all contained the new PvX model…so none of this is new or remotely recent.
AGS decided, after being awakened to just what some PKers consider fun, that they did not want a 1700’s-themed version of Asheron’s Call’s Darktide server as their flagship MMO (rightly in my opinion) and changed gears. That ship, as I said, sailed - straight into the Bermuda Triangle - and is not coming back.
Look, you’re free to say AGS lied. You keep doing that, while I keep quoting them directly. If it’s a choice between taking your word over it with no evidence at all over what they were very publicly quoted as saying…well, no offense, but here it is again:
“One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players."
This nails AGS’s conundrum perfectly. You have groups of players with diametrically opposed mindsets about what they want from New World. It’s easy for AGS to see where there are overlaps, things most of us agree on, and act on them. But when it comes to people who desperately want an open world all-PvP survival looter and people who want to be left alone when they don’t want to PvP in the same space, well then…now what?
The “now what” that AGS decided on was a flagging optional PvX game. It’s not the best of PvP MMOs and it’s not the best of PvE MMOs. It’s a compromise solution and some people are just not going to be satisfied with that. Fair enough. All AGS can really do is work toward their vision of what New World is supposed be, and when these conflicts happen among us players they need to pick a direction that most closely aligns with their vision and stay that course.
That’s why I feel not only AGS hurts from it but others too because they don’t get the full feedback. Like I mentioned, forums are mostly those who complain and those who love the current state or at leaves loves certain aspects never get heard because they just play and if they love it they keep playing. If they don’t they move on or post to complain.
This is why I recommended in game polls for a mass accumulation of data rather than the.couple.hundred that post here.
They have had at least 2 in game surveys. The feedback they receive is not just from forums alone. It just looks that way to people because its the only feedback they can see.
Everyone here can agree on one part to this…the game is having issues. It’s a lack of proper management and not putting the priorities needed first. The game launched with a lot of bugs and exploits. Instead of focusing on fixing those the game devs figured “we need to release new content of we gonna lose players” and welp that was a bad decision. The game wasn’t even out two months and they added new things and even increased gear score (now why would gear score be more important then fixing bugs?) Then the figured “We have to add mutations (aka Mythic + taken from WOW) otherwise we gonna lose players” Yet again who lot of bugs came back, and still haven’t been fixed.
Dev’s need to focus on making fixes a priority before focusing on new content or have one team focus on fixes and another focus on content but priorities fixes first. A game doesn’t need “monthly new content” releases. Games been out five months yet a lot of bugs remain
As for content side it’s good having new content but your releasing it way too fast and not everyone can catch up. The expertise system needs work it’s too random on what raises you get with what someone is trying to focus on. It should look at the gear a player is wearing and base it’s picks off that. If I’m wearing plate my expertise works for that, If I’m sword and shield and I pick up a better sword my shield score should also go up (since your linking those two together as a mastery) If someone wants to raise Gauntlet expertise then they can equip one and run it to level it (or use the gypsum meaning it gives them something to do)
I will also again say the obvious something is not right with loot luck. Even one having void gear, pearls, bags, weapons (thats sword and shield both with luck and a second weapon that has luck), jewelry with pearls, major luck trophies and in pvp and somehow I end up getting more maple furniture they anything else yet a company mate with barely any luck gear ends up pulling precision armoring tools, corrupted totems, stacked decks and loaded dice in same chest runs. Add a damn area to the paperdoll stating how much percentage of luck they have.
I can write a book here but I’m sure I bored many already. If the game dies it dies…if it lives and flourishes wonderful. But if I don’t see any fixes to bugs soon and they try to push a xpac I’m not buying it
As @desubot correctly says any loss more than time and standing is too much for “casual” pvp.
Of course, the real reason was the sales projections were too low to justify the continued production of the game. I imagine if the projections were such that the sales would at least break even, they would have released it in 2019. No business would spend additional 1000s of man hours unless they had a good reason to.
Yes, that’s exactly what I am saying. None of the “big 5” PVE MMOs except WoW require daily commitment (in fact FFXIV and GW2 are explicitly designed not to be timegated in any way shape or form such that you can drop it, pick it up later and catch up in a matter of days)
In FFXIV there are 17-19 weeks between major patches. Most people are done with the content in 8-10 weeks and the remainder they go play something else. The schedule is even more relaxing in GW2.
In general, for every MMO there are 2 large groups - the core “superfans” who play only this MMO every day and do all content that the MMO has to offer and casuals/semi-casuals who play only the content they want to play. For PVE games the second group is fluid (the pvp-andies typically refer to them as “locusts”) and will come and go as content that interests them is added. In a hypercompetitive PVP game every moment you spend outside of the game is the moment you are falling behind somebody, this is especially true for persistent world games (in Rust at least servers reset, so you always have a chance for a fresh start)
I understand your point, but a PVP-centric game may not have been even released, it is entirely possible that AGS could have cancelled it completely (EverQuest New anyone?)after alpha if it wasn’t sure it would sell well.
I can only repeat that no business will willingly spend additional 1000s of man hours unless they have really good reason to.
Well we will never know what could have happened so let’s agree to disagree. I think if they hadn’t changed the direction NW would have never seen the light of day at all.
That’s patently not true at all. First of all no amount of forum complaining will persuade company to delay release by 18 months, change lead game dev, change direction etc. Secondly, as I was saying earlier by May 2019 there were no alpha testers left in the game - such was the appeal of full loot PVP game. If you were part of alpha testers, go through your email archive. You will find something like 5 alpha invites throughout May 2019 alone - they were running out of testers faster than they can send out invites for them
They left because the game is heavily timegated 2000s Lineage-II style. Outside of tiny group of no-lifers who daydream about their prime 20 years ago the appetite for this style of MMOs is simply not there
There are plenty of MMO’s that have balanced PvP and PvE , never perfectly but still well enough for both types of players to play the game and enjoy it.
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