You’re on the wrong server mate.
There’s a simple solution that will please most. Instead of the current wave of nerfs, they could work on specialized pvp gear and how they work while flag on.
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I want a bow or rifle melee stun so bad, I’m always so jealous of mobs that have it
UO might have a population of around 15k players worldwide across all production and private servers. I wouldn’t exactly call this flourishing. The places where it does continue to exist cater heavily to the PvE crowd. The most active private server (the only place you will find “full” pvp) boasts a population of around 1k, and they are making basically 0$ from the pvp crowd, its all the “care bears” supporting the server through donations for their pretty cosmetic items. It’s a common myth that Trammel killed UO, but the population actually GREW for a couple xpacs and several patches after that, imo it was the move towards power creep that really seemed to turn people off.
For the last 30 years of MMORPG games - PVP MMO players play 4-5x longer, spend more money, and stick with games…while pve players flock to the next pve game that has more “content” for them to consume…
I’ve been in the industry both as a gamedev and player (and investor) since the first graphical MMORPGs were created (and they were all PVP MMORPGs in the beginning…)
PVE was created for casuals who want a sandbox/social experience.
PVP was created for competitive gamers. We are the largest gamer/customer demographic, always have been - but possibly wont be forever…
OMG! CLOSE THE INTERNET! The game is not like it should be in 5 years. I want a refund!
sarcasm
Okay, since you ignored my last post, I’ll just move forward and challenge you to provide proof of those stats. If pvp focused players were so long lasting, MMO’s would slowly gravitate toward pvp to cater to their most dedicated population. At best, pvp was added as another feature to entice populations to remain in the game. It’s not PVP that’s kept WoW at the top of the heap. It’s certainly not PVP that’s kept FF14’s population as high for years. Why did DAOC and Warhammer Online die if PVP players are so reliable?
MMO’s sprang from MUDs. The earliest MUDs were pve. Many added pvp down the line, but it wasn’t the driving force by any stretch of the imagination, and a few of the first MMO’s to show up were full on pvp (UO being the most famous example).
You listed a bunch of MMO’s as full pvp when they were nothing of the sort. I don’t know you but I’m skeptical you have any of the “gamedev” creds you tout with how little you seem to know about the titles you’ve posted.
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Completely BS everything you just said.
- UO has had over 15 MILLION players. Across over 20+ years. One of the first MMORPGs and one of the most successful ever. UO was also released pre-2000 in an era where the # of internet users was nowhere near what it is today. Additionally, it had 250k paid subscribers at its peak. Active monthly subs = 250k. Not 15k total players. Youre FOS.
- UO players playtime is an average of THREE YEARS. Much longer than the SIX MONTHS that normal PVE players play a PVE MMO on average.
- The entire game was full PVP, so no clue what you are smoking saying that only priv servers have “full pvp”. Priv servers each have their own monetization - so talking about that is meaningless as well in this context. Some of them make a lot of $$$. Some run it for fun and not for business. Same exact scenario for wow priv servers.
- EVE is another full PVP MMORPG and is financially and player-retention #-wise, more successful than even WOW. The avg time a player stays in EVE >>> time a player stays in WOW. The $$$ a player spends on EVE >>> the $$$ a player spends on WOW. (WOW is the #1 PVE metric in the market).
Facts:
- The first decade of MMORPGs were all PVP MMORPGs.
- PVE MMORPGs have flooded the market in the last decade, while PVP MMORPGs havent.
- Kids play PVE MMORPGs - because they are either A) carebears; or B) just havent had a good major PVP MMORPG title to play
- PVP MMORPGs have succeeded more than PVE MMORPGs (both in ratio of games made, and absolute number).
- PVP MMORPG games last much longer, on average 4-5x longer, than PVE MMORPGs, with players sticking around 4-5x longer and paying more money.
- PVP MMORPGs are a superior customer market for long-term income and profit-per-player income in the MMO genre. (This is not even counting games like the new “survival PVP MMO’s” such as ARK, Rust, etc which are also a new type of pvp mmo/rpg game that have been selling millions of game copies)
Meanwhile, PVE MMORPGs have a 90% failure rate. Make less profit-per-player. Have a less dedicated playerbase. Require massive amounts of customer support (toxic complaining carebear kiddies = pve mmo customers).
As a gamedev, player, and investor in this industry I’ve been quite happy putting my time and money into PVP MMO’s.
I play PVE MMO’s too. I just dont care as much about them. Because as soon as I’m done with the content — game over.
In a PVP MMO there is no end to the game. The content is the PVP itself and the world that is built around it.
PVP MMO’s are for gamers. Typically - competitive gamers. Which is the largest gaming market (in every gaming genre). Casual, mobile, sandbox, chatroom, social type games are getting very big, and might one day be a bigger market, but that doesnt mean the other will disappear. Both will always exist.
I also dont really care about my custom skins, mounts, or other kiddie eyecandy nonsense.
I am a gamer. I’m not here to show off my skins or mounts and chit-chat in a virtual chatroom.
PVP gamers are a much more mature gamer demographic and we are looking for much deeper gameplay.
Theres nothing wrong with playing PVE games. Nor is there anything wrong with PVP games.
Different demographic, different interests.
PVP gamers like me are here because PVP was built from the ground up to be a PVP game.
Everyone complaining about NW right now are kids who have never played a PVP MMO before and dont understand that this is a PVP MMO…
The biggest mistake AGS made was putting in the “pvp toggle”.
It didnt exist in alpha, and most of beta.
I believe this single thing caused more people to play the game - who wouldnt have if they hadnt implemented it.
It was a “mistake” because it is misleading ppl to think this is another wow kiddie pve theme park game, when it is and always will be a pvp game. It got them a ton more sales though, so “mistake”…well not in their eyes financially.
Didnt see your last post.
You can use wikipedia and get those stats yourself quite easily.
Your laziness is not my problem.
As for more MMOs going to PVP? Why do you think NW is a PVP game?
PVP MMOs were ignored quite a lot for a decade. From 2008-2021 we havent seen much.
A few - that have done very well - but are still small.
Gloria Victis, Mortal Online, Mortal Online 2, etc…
This past decade has been very bad for the MMO genre. WOW really changed the industry and brought up a whole generation of PVE MMO kids with it. Sad for you, but not for the rest of us who are not from your generation.
Meanwhile, EVE, UO, DF, AC, DAOC, Mortal, and a dozen other PVP MMORPGs have held their playerbases. EVE is the #1 game in the market for player-retention. Its full PVP.
The fact that you are not a competitive gamer who has no experience in the competitive gaming industry doesnt mean it doesnt exist. It just means you havent experienced it.
Now you PVE MMO wow kiddies think that every MMO is a theme park PVE MMO.
No. That is a new thing. It has its market, but it is a new thing in the MMO genre.
PVP MMOs are coming back. You dont have to like them if you dont want, but your ignorance of the genre doesnt change what it is.
There are many good PVE MMOs for you to play, so you shouldnt be complaining…and if that is what you want to play? Go play them. NW is not a PVE MMO. It never will be.
You obviously didnt play alpha, when there was no pvp toggle, and when it was actually even a battle-royale-mmo-rpg with nothing but pvp (no quests, no pve at all).
Thats actually a game-mode I hope they put back in. It would be quite fun to have more pvp modes at endgame. (Which theyve already said countless times, they are working on, and will be adding)
Another PvP > PvE thread…
You keep doubling down on bull. Eve isn’t a full PVP game. Lots of players never leave High Sec. Yeah, it’s technically possible players might do suicide runs to gank them, but it’s a radical anomaly.
For you to compare Eve and WoW is laughable. While Eve has had a steady population since the start, the numbers are ridiculously different. Wow could lose 75% of its player base and still out-pop Eve’s. As for the money, I DARE YOU to provide stats showing Eve making more money than WoW.
- The first decade of MMORPGs? Which one is that? Even then, you have yet to lest more than two early MMO’s that were, as you put it, “full pvp”.
- MMO’s in general have flooded the market for 2 decades.
- All demographics play MMORPGs, this explains nothing.
- Are you talking about Asian ftp cookie cutter games or are we talking the industry the rest of us actually deal with? The only place where that’s true is in Asia.
- Apart from UO’s resilience and Eve (if you ignore Hi Sec), what PVP MMOs are you talking about?
- You have no stats for that in the US. At best, you might be able to pull numbers from Asia where they have an odd affinity for those ftp pvp clones.
All MMO’s have a 90% failure rate. That’s not exclusive to pve.
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No, you made the claim, back it up or step off. If you’re going to make claims, then support them.
NW is a PVE/PVP game because it started off as pvp and they determined it wasn’t viable as pvp exclusive and shifted to hybrid a year ago. Anyone that’s read about this game’s history knows that. I shouldn’t have to explain that to you, since you’re such a self-proclaimed expert.
So, as a developer and investor, since you’re so knowledgeable, why is it that the most profitable type of MMO has been ignored for over a decade? Companies chase the money. If it’s so profitable, what’s the reason we’ve gotten so many PVE focused MMO’s?
As for me not being a competitive gamer, that’s an assumption on your part. You don’t know squat about what I play.
Edit: Buying a $3000 ship in Star Citizen doesn’t make you a real investor…
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Of course it will be. Majority are role players. I saw someone asking for a PvP only server, where you flagged permanently. Outrage was crazy.
I really hope they add a % increase in yield and luck for being flagged.
I mean, in the German section someone wants to sue a company because they made discord mandatory… All hope is lost at this point.
Here is a perfect reason why you should stay in school, and never smoke crack.
Sounds like you should log into Ultima online since it’s so booming and such a good game.
Lastly, every big named mmorpg has a very strong PVE element to it. By bit named I mean they are actively holding more players than 2 or 3 of your “omg insanely wicked good full loot PvP game”
Thats a lot of text to say “I have no idea what I’m talking about, and also I’m a flat out liar”
Also its not bs, BECAUSE I ACTUALLY STILL PLAY UO YOU DOLT, you obviously do not
Oh good lord, you clearly know nothing about UO.
UO at launch was a full pvp experience, you got to loot the person you killed of all the items they had on them. You could camp a pk group house and kill them for their key and loot their house. It was a free for all in the beginning.
That all changed when they added Trammel. It became a majority PVE experience as Felucca became a ghost town.
I was there for all of it, you clearly were not.
It was not pvp to begin. It was a survival pve. They changed the game several times. Pls stop making things up. You are being toxic.
Please stop bringing back 10 day old threads…toxic
Since you insist on making crap up every post, I’ll just let New World’s own site rebut you: The Evolution of New World’s PvP - News | New World
Of particular note in this link is this little quote:
“We used this feedback to find common pain points in the game. It was clear that there were concerns in the community about the impact of PvP (Player versus Player) on the overall gameplay experience. While PvP did change over the course of Alpha, generally, it was full loot and open world with only Outposts acting as sanctuaries. Everyone was vulnerable to attack, at any time, from other players in the rest of the world. In order to attack, players would flag Criminal Intent. If you died as a Criminal you would experience full gear and inventory loss. If you died to a Criminal you would lose all of your inventory but keep your equipped gear with durability damage taken.”
Kindly step off with your revisionist history garbage. The only toxic person is the one you see in the mirror.