This is what happens with shill advice

So i noticed we are nearly back down to last spring’s population.

Oh, no one wants pvp content you say?

Oh, did you go the way of Crowfail and make the game about crafting grinds instead of pvp?

How is that decision to go full PVE content working out for you?

Me sad. Game could be great with a different leader in charge.


AGS could focus an entire year on pvp that the community would still be whining about something. That’s mostly why you don’t see many “pvp only” mmo.

Y’all are acting like a bunch a babies all the time and wondering why you can’t have nice things.


19,821 CC
If average playtime is 3 hours.

Total daily will average 158K+ for the day.

Math is fun!


Still better then :






And the only reason for that is the PvE content.


I concur

I am happy with the shift. Now if/when they make ALL pvp instanced, you’ll see things getting better.

Performance, server cap, and population.


That’s good numbers I don’t no what you guys expect what the numbers should be, but mmos these days don’t increase this big numbers anymore.

Players come back and leave the game it’s a up and down and Lost ark doesn’t count that’s 80% bots maybe more

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People need to stop and think. This is an MMORPG.

Much different than any other MMO. In many cases MMORPGs spawned various MMO modes. But MMORPG can not be classified with anything else.

Many reasons why MMORPGs has a bad history with PvP is due to the origins … RPG. It brought people together to play together. This created a specific fan that still controls the fates of the MMORPG genre.

Those who rely on PvP to enjoy the community never will understand.

I’m a PvP player, it’s what i do mostly and what i prefer to do given the equal oportunities, but i do engage in all aspects of MMOs and I can find joy in playing PvE with my friends…

That being said the MMORPG genre has always been a PvE focused genre, and as a PvP players I am greatful when developers dedicate resources to this aspect of the game.

But I realise that focusing mainly on PvP in a MMORPG envrioment will without a doubt result in a niche population and most often then not results in the death of said game, being unable to sustain itself.

MMORPGs don’t have a bad history because of its origin, there were great PvP MMORPGs in the past [actually most MMORPGs had PvP in the begining, ultima online, everquest,doac just some of the earliest biggest names], when people were not griefing each other as much as they do nowadays… Most people didn’t find satisfaction in stealing 3 branches from some level 2 player when they were endgame. In the past people understood that the only form of “fun” PvP is consentual (to some degree).
EverQuest had a “PK Board” (community made) where big GLs would share griefers and they would become KoS for most people on the server… Most people on such lists would end up quiting the game, its hard when a full server starts hunting u down. You do not have anything like that in any of the current MMOs and people ruin each others experience just for “fun”.

So yeah PvP nowadays in MMORPGs just doesnt work like it used to, and i know there are some that give PvP-ers a horrible name, with their purely annoying “full-loot”, “gib bonus” , “force people to flag” and shiz like that. But not everyone is the same, actually most real PvPers are not… We want a challenge, we spend countless hours just fighting between ourselves for the sole purpose of improving our skill… PvP is the reward in itself.

I’m sad that we dont have 3-4-5 battlegrounds, I’m sad resources get uselesly spend on pointless balancing … rather then new avenues for PvP so i often understand the frustration some have. There a decent amount of PvE content… but we have 1 battleground and 1 arena for PvP (for the general public) and Wars for a select few.


Who could have guessed that splitting the player base in 2, releasing no actual content, and dumbing down combat patch after patch would be bad for the game.


Green numbers.

At the time of posting CC is 14.6K+

If the average play time is 4 hours, the total daily average is 87K total.

Not dead

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I don’t think NW’s PVE-turn is bad for the game. It’s what will probably save it in the long run.

However, EVE had 27k concurrent players on his own launcher yesterday when I logged in, not even sure if it was the daily peak. Not bad for a pvp oriented sandbox game.

Similar things can be said about Albion, since it has its own launcher as well.

The point is, I’m not sure if these comparisons work the way you think they do. AGS wanted a triple A, highly popular on twitch mmorpg. You listed a bunch of indie sandbox pvp games, some of which do better than NW. Not something wort gloating about.

AGS priority is the reason for this. Prioritizing the wrong things like FSS instead of fast tracking cross server are the decisions that lead up to this. Prioritizing a trial and mounts before a new OPR/arena map which would take considerably less time to make is where they go wrong. You don’t need much to keep the PvP pop entertained but to leave them with close to nothing since launch(not counting arena which is barely a gamemode) is laughable.

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Whatever you just did, is not math. :rofl:

But yes, Math is fun. :wink:

If average play time is 3 hours and there is 24 hours in a day, you have 8 play sessions. 8×3=24

It is more reliable with previous 24 hour CC than live CC.

It is not hard to understand. We just need to know average play time.

If you want to get really specific, add each hour’s CC to get daily total average. That’s 24 hours of CC.

Most of the people sinking that many hours into the game are PvP players but that doesn’t mean catering to PvE players isn’t the right move. As a PvP player I’m fine with most of the updates going towards PvE but I want at least some end game PvP content with replayability, outside of war content. I also want competent balancing changes, not what we have on PTR.

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You’re actually right about EvE online having their own launcher (haven’t played it in forever), and the steam numbers not representing the actual playerbase. EvE is quite succesful game, and even more so since Pearl Abyss took over, and made the game more new player friendly. So yeah I should correct myself, EvE online could potentially be doing better then NW atm… that being said EvE will never have 100k concurrent players, and there is an argument to be made that EvE has actually smaller “total” population then NW, considering play sesion time.

Regardless of what AGS wanted, they are NOT currently delivering a tripple A product… look at the character creator and tell me its a tripple A product. Look at the skins and tell me how its a tripple A product, and i can keep going… look at the available battlegrounds (i guess battleground cause its only 1) and tell me how its a tripple A product.

Also the most tripple A product on that list has 90 concurrent players (AA)

Also EvE online is by no means an indie company either and has way more experience and way more competent and experienced developers then AGS does (or had, i know a lot of them took off after PA bought the game from them, to make Pax Dei).

If anything its unfair to compare NW to something like ArcheAge or EvE online, when they clearly had/have a Bigger, Better and More experienced TEAMs.

I listen a bunch of PvP oriented games, and realistically the 2 that are doing alright have massive amounts of PvE and PvE focused content…

Bring up the Horde - Alliance distribution for Classic WoW servers, and see how well PvP works out from a tripple A developer, same can be said in almost any game, tripple A or indie.

Most companies dont make a TRIPPLE A focused PvP MNMORPG because they fail and its much worse when its a MMORPGs since they cost tons of money, resources and time to make and they almost “always” fail. So we compare with what is there on the market.

Where do you get this average playtime number from?

No, it is not, especially as you have provided NO source for your “numbers”.

Where do you get the average from?

Nothing you wrote in this post provides any clarity as to the made up numbers from your other post with the “math” in it. :person_shrugging:

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I explained it, yet you omit that from your attack.



Man is this ever an insane position. I am glad i am here to school you. I will do so unofficially on behalf of all of the gaming industry, because us designers that know what we are doing, and actually have an idea about these things.

The history of " unconsensual pvp games) (ie full pv)

Lets start with the fact that fact that no full pvp game has ever kept any significant amount of population. ANY FULLY PVP GAME IS DESTINED TO 100K (ish) People AT MOST.

End of story right there you are wrong. Lets continue.

Gw2, Wow, Eso (to name three well known ones) and even older mmos like rift are all PVE BASED. YOU LOSE AGAIN.

The simple fact is that pvp population cannot support a multi-million player mmo.

Lets talk about New world and what new world thinks caused the decline of the game (according to their marketing team)

Mutation Limit has easily killed this games population, not “catering to pvp demands”. There are other contributing factors like content access frequency, inefficiencies with access to content, and i even personally believe with the faction/companies (specifically with the way players are faction grouped and limited from transferring to potential companies they could find a new home)

Lets use the same logic to prove you wrong.

Guess what came out in oct? Brimstone.

Tempest and other dungeon changes, including mutations. Guess what was removed in the end of the previous month (july)? Orbs.

So you are totally wrong. PvE content and its releases and fixes are keeping this game alive, not killing it.


I did not attack you, I attacked your inaccurate estimation of average play time, with NO provided source for data and inaccurate estimation of total player count, again, based on flawed data that you did not source.

Why you see this as a personal attack is your own issue to deal with. :person_shrugging:

Try to present some facts with your guesstimates, it will lend at least some legitimacy to your posts.

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