[Umbral System] Upgrading 590GS -> 600GS doesn't change a thing, Expertise still broken

[slappygoose]

[Umbral System] Upgrading 590GS -> 600GS system doesn't change a thing

@Zin_Ramu

Thanks for all the feedback so far on the Umbral system. One piece of feedback that is fairly unanimous and I think makes sense is limiting the ability to upgrade to GS 600 is pretty onerous. We wanted to keep the value of legendry 600s really high. But I can totally see how that is limiting, and can be disheartening when you get a lot of bad RNG and haven’t gotten your Legendary roll.

Therefore, we are looking into reducing the required minimum GS to upgrade to 590. You will still need to get to expertise 600 to unlock upgrading via umbral. But once its unlocked you could now upgrade from 590 to 600 at a moderate umbral cost. That allows those really good 590-599 rolls, to become great weapons, with a little extra Umbral.

We will try to get this change in as soon as possible.

@Zin_Ramu

They will not gain an additional perk. I think that would potentially devalue legendary items and the chase for them too much. Once players level up mutators or their Expertise, they will be able to earn a fair amount of Umbral Shards quickly. So they could potentially upgrade a lot of 590+ items in the hunt for a good perk roll. We don’t want the Umbral system to be a source for “new” gear, but rather a path to upgrade gear.

Congrats community, you did it. You made AGS change their minds. Best of all, it doesn’t change a thing. Just like the Gypsum orb price tweak from 500 → ~3, its a token victory. Here is why:

No point to upgrading less than 600 GS items

The gearscore bump for items hardly matters. The change from GS 595 -> GS 600 only slightly improves damage.

• Suppose a user is equipped with <600 GS armor. They upgrade the armor to 600 GS, pich provides only a marginal improvement to damage/armor. When a user gets a BIS 600 GS gear, they need to get more umbral shards to get the item to 625 GS. Your <600 GS gear, is replaced. Player is unhappy about replacing their gear that they spent umbral shards on, and they still have to replace their gear.

• Suppose a user is equipped with <600 GS gear. They collect umbral shards but don’t spend it on their <600 GS gear because they don’t want to waste their Umbral shards. They continue hunting for BIS 600 gear before spending any shards. There is no feeling of progression during the grind. The player is unhappy. The 590 GS → 600 GS umbral upgrade option remains unused.

In either scenario, the player is locked out of taking full advantage of the Umbral System unless they are spending the shards on BIS gear. The main time sink is still getting the BIS gear, which is fully based on luck.

No point to upgrading non-BIS legendaries

No user will spend umbral shards on upgrading 600 GS gear with a bad perk. It is too much work to upgrade an item to 625 GS if you have to repeat the grind again. Umbral shards won't see any use, except from people who have BIS gear (owners of Windsward/Everfall).

Crafters are useless again

The 600GS bump will make legendary drops far more common, but doesn't increase the chance of Legendaries being crafted. The best way of getting good gear is to run mutations. Getting 600GS drops in mutations are far more economical than crafting them.

New players don't want to play a game that they are behind in

The timegated expertise system is the main reason that new level 60 players quit. They have no hope of catching up to veteren players, and are not given the ability to catch up, due to everything being timegated. This is an issue with the expertise system, but the Umbral system is an extension of the expertise system and has the same time gates.

The impact

The main grind in the game post level 60 is getting good 600 GS BIS gear, This update hasn't changed that. The only thing this update will accomplish is increase the strength disparity between people who have BIS or semi-BIS gear (<1%) and those that don't. The rest will be unwilling to spend Umbral Shards on their items.

How to fix this

1. Give the ability for users to get good gear more easily. This can be done by implementing some of the following:

   • Preventing useless items from dropping. No muskets with focus, no dex armor with a sacred light perk. Gear may not be BIS, but if all the perks are good, people will upgrade their items. This helps crafters by making sure they don’t need to craft junk.
   • Reorg perk categories so that the weaker perks don’t crowd the list of potential perks (chain perks, hated, beloved, siege). Reduces junk items.
   • Allow players to reroll perks on legendary items. People spend Umbral Shards to reroll the perks on a legendary weapon. Crafted/found legendaries should never be junk. Rewards crafters for getting a legendary, even if the perks are bad.

2. Rework the expertise system to a salvage system, dailies should not be the only method of increasing expertise. Here is the long version. The gist of it is:

   • All expertise slots should have an XP bar
   • Salvaging an self found/crafted item adds XP to that expertise category
   • The amount of XP is dependent on the GS and rarity of that item
   • Using a weapon adds XP to the weapons expertise category
   • When a player reaches max expertise for a slot, they receive a box that contains Umbral Shards, rewards, ect.

(1) allows good gear to be more accessible to people. This allows more people to use your umbral system instead of hoping they get good 600GS gear. (2) allows newcomers to catch up to veterans by putting in work, and decouples the end game progression from dailies

[Sporticus]

@slappygoose

No point to upgrading less than 600 GS items

The gearscore bump for items hardly matters. The change from GS 595 → GS 600 only slightly improves damage.

Wouldn’t they get an additional perk? If anything it seems like it makes the most sense to upgrade less than 600 GS items.

edit. Nevermind, I misread the dev post.

You are correct.

[slappygoose]

@Zin_Ramu

They will not gain an additional perk. I think that would potentially devalue legendary items and the chase for them too much. Once players level up mutators or their Expertise, they will be able to earn a fair amount of Umbral Shards quickly. So they could potentially upgrade a lot of 590+ items in the hunt for a good perk roll. We don’t want the Umbral system to be a source for “new” gear, but rather a path to upgrade gear.

Nope. There is no new perk if you upgrade your item from 595 to 600. You have an awesome 598 spear with Keen and Enchanted? You have to replace that later on. You can upgrade it to 600 but thats it, no new perks are added.

[slappygoose]

I posted this in General, when it should be in game feedback. Il create another post there.

[desubot]

@slappygoose

Allow players to reroll perks on legendary items. People spend Umbral Shards to reroll the perks on a legendary weapon. Crafted/found legendaries should never be junk. Rewards crafters for getting a legendary, even if the perks are bad.

yep this.

it means any legendries will always retain a decent value. thats how that should be.

you get a dropped a helmet of the soldier with healer perks. you can give/sell that item to a STR dps and they can work on it over time to make it useful.

you crafted 3 legendary bows with 1 or 2 perks off.

you can still sell them so whom ever wants to put in the effort can try and make it better for them.

if the umbral price is right it wont be trivial but wont be impossible ether.

more people will have better gear to compete in all sorts of things like wars making for a more engaging server

its all win win win.

[slappygoose]

Yup. There are many ways of allowing legendaries to not be trash. Perhaps you can have the ability to reroll the perk of a specific category, or reroll the category itself.

There is no worse feeling than seeing the majority of your loot be total garbage, or to see your crafted legendary have trash perks.

[desubot]

Just got my first one last night

a legendary helmet with dumpster combo stats and misaligned perks.

super disappointed.

[slappygoose]

Bump.

[Rithz]

+1

Umbral system will make game from

New World > New Bug > Ice/Void World > Farm World