Skinning is the fastest harvesting skill to max. Iron hides are a byproduct of farming legendary hides, so their price reflects that.
All raw resources that are selling for .01 are a byproduct of rare item farming that is vastly oversupplying their demand.
Correct - the harvest skill levels are only harmful to the game.
Supply and demand? 24/7 farming of orichalcum resulted in abundance of void ores, which are sold at very high prices, now the demand, only few people have the money to buy it, some are just waiting for the price drops or till they get one themselves
Adderstone price are rising, and some tier 1-2 materials, trophies, trade foods, potions? Luck gears? Items that people that always spam to get void ores, the demand is there, just supply it, there’s too many ori farmers now, find another job
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Your idea of a wealth tax seems to have completely missed the reason for inflation and deflation. It has nothing to do with the availability of disposable wealth. The prices are driven entirely by supply and demand. There is no set value of any item, simply the value an individual places upon it, both buyer and seller. Which is how economies work. I may believe that the item I’m selling on the TP is worth 10K, but if no buyer feels the same way, it won’t sell. And if I post it for 10K, and someone else looking to sell the same item quickly posts theirs for 8K, mine will likely not sell unless there are only our two posted for sale and two or more buyers willing to pay that price.
Currently, there are plenty of items listed on the TP that I can afford to buy, but I don’t need or want them. And either taking some of my gold to give to another, or taking someone else’s gold to give to me won’t change that. Almost all markets are currently seeing a drop in list prices because as the majority of the player base levelled gear, gathering, crafting, etc., there has been a huge over supply of many items. If I level my Arcana skill by making 100K weak mana potions, which I can’t salvage and will never use personally, I’ll look for any return on them. So I’ll post them for as little as I think it takes to offload them. Massive supply with little to no demand will drive the prices down.
And as far as harvesting skills, you seem to be off point there too. A lot of the excess materials being sold cheap were not the result of people levelling the skills. They are the result of people trying to get rare drops, and offloading the common ones they didn’t want in the first place. Like void ore. Removing harvesting skills would actually make this even worse, since there would no longer even be a level requirement to try for those rare items in higher tiers.
The simple fact is that the prices on the TPs are fluctuating, like any good economy should, based on supply and demand. Gold and platinum are a good example. They aren’t needed for someone just levelling jewelcrafting (they impact gear score, but not XP earned). But the chance of getting higher tier gems from a platinum node is higher than from a silver node. So, people mine them for gems, post the unwanted ore on the TP, and jewelcrafters don’t need anywhere near the amount of available supply. Re-distributing people’s gold won’t change that.
Oh, and anyone can get out of paying said tax by donating wealth to their company. A smart company will allow any member to access the full amount of what they donate, or a set percentage. Even if they don’t give all member access to directly withdraw it, a handful of treasury officers could easily keep track of how much each member donated and make withdrawals to give back to the member if they need it for a large purchase. This would mean many people will simply carry just under the minimum tax rate to always be on the receiving end and never on the paying end of the wealth tax.
@ smoke [quote=“smoke, post:51, topic:532702, full:true”]
they can make prices go up if they want. at one point in alpha you could grind lvl 40 mobs for about half an hour and get 2k gold just from drops. tannin was about 7g per.
[/quote]
This does nothing to change the situation. If I have 1K gold and tannin sells for 0.01, or I have 10K gold and tannin sells for 0.1, or I have 100K gold and tannin sells for 1, the situation is the same. The buying power of my coin has not changed, and the perceived value of an item is still situationally the same.
Cheers
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Void ore price has not changed on my server. So… I guess the sign of deflation isn’t as clear in places. 
The prices are driven entirely by supply and demand.
You don’t think the amount of gold at peoples disposal influences the prices in any way? In most MMO’s you see inflation, as gold is abundant. In NW it’s the opposite, as gold is the only thing that stores value - at least currently.
They are the result of people trying to get rare drops, and offloading the common ones they didn’t want in the first place.
This is partially correct, at least for orichalcum.
As for lower level ores, they are farmed whenever seen to level up skills.
Oh, and anyone can get out of paying said tax by donating wealth to their company.
Nope, company gold can be taxed too, no problem here.
Actually, it’s not a matter of thinking it, it’s actually core economic principle. Supply and demand, not disposable income, drive pricing. As I’ve already said, I have the coin to buy things from the TP, but will only buy the things I want, regardless of my disposable income or the price listed. When supply outstrips demand, deflation will occur.
And yes, you could tax companies. Or you could just give every player 10K gold every 24 hours. Neither will off set deflation. In fact, that will additionally cause deflation of the currency. Creation of new wealth, or re-distribution of existing in game currency, does not change the supply and demand issues. And if you really still don’t believe that, I encourage you to test your own theory.
You have, based on the screen shot you posted, over 30K gold. So, use 25K of that to buy all the things posted for below what you feel are fair prices. Don’t buy them and re-post them, just hold them. You will then have created a redistribution of wealth (as you’re suggesting with your tax structure) by transferring your 25K to other players through those purchases. You will also have removed a number of low priced goods from the TP. This will only cause the deflation to stop if you can keep buying everything that people post for low prices. But in doing that, you have created demand. And that’s the only way prices will rise, if demand out paces supply.
Cheers
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Supply and demand, not disposable income, drive pricing.
Not even in Zimbabwe?
And yes, you could tax companies. Or you could just give every player 10K gold every 24 hours. Neither will off set deflation.
You dont think everyone would spend that 10k when theyre at gold cap to buy pretty much anything, causing inflation?
Most players already leveled up their profession past 150. The only items at 0.01 are reeds and weak healing potion. Even maple stain is now 0.30 coin.
Posts about “fIx tHe EcOnOmY” are made by players who only partially understand what’s going on and more than often care only about their own little bubble.
Take this post for example. It’s about how OP cryes because he can’t sell his void ore. A decision about economy cannot be made this easily.
The only one that holds all the information/statistics about economy and the only one competent to make a considerate change is AGS.
My advice is to stop whining about stuf you don’t understand and adapt to game as it is.
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Take this post for example. It’s about how OP cryes because he can’t sell his void ore. A decision about economy cannot be made this easily.
My mining is 174, haven’t mined too much void ore lately.
AGS has the data, the question is what fix they will do
- Increase gold drops
- Reduce gold sinks
- Something else
I like the game, and don’t want to see the playerbase decreasing, hence I’m proposing a good fix in the category 3, even though it is beyond your comprehension.
But TBH, even AGS will have to think about a bit to understand the logic of wealth tax and citizen dividend, as they don’t have too many open minded economists on their payroll i suspect.
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It was obvious that we were going to reach the point at where everything that had value or still has value would be more or less worthless over time simply due to the demand and especially the fact that we barely have 2k players per realm from which not many reach level 60 and furthermore are not interested or have the gold to buy certain items.
What i am interested to know is how the market is going to evolve once everyone will be geared and maxed out with the professions.
Go and learn some basics of economy first then make suggestions. Your statement means nothing and your “guarantee” is worth less than 0. Punishing people with taxes always brings more harm than good. But trying to explain it further would require me to go on IRL topics regarding politics and this isn’t a place to do that.
On my server ori tools prices skyrocketed. They went up like atleast 10 times up.
You do realize the gold cap is a form of a tax too?
Why do you think they implemented it?
The reason why wealth transfers are problematic in the real world is because there is a transaction cost - money is lost in the “gears”. NW doesnt have the same.
One solution to keep the economy running when everyone has geared up is to make more and more material consumables, e.g. by requiring ingots for repairs.
The easier (and more common) way is to add 10 levels and better gear to the game on regular intervals, that keeps people busy.
Its not enough in a game to just give money to cause inflation, there needs to be something for players to do that consumes materials and pays out coin and produces nothing. Right now the only activity i can think of that does this is Wars and those are limited entry. Right now the best solo income is gathering which causes deflation. Outpost Rush is awesome because it provides no materials except maybe a piece of gear and consumes players time and pays them coin. It could be better if it required materials to play thereby directly causing inflation.
incorrect. there are fixed costs like home taxes and equipment repair that would become more affordable if the economy gets inflated.
also, tannin and the higher tier rested tannin would not sell for the same price. right now they both sell for .01 because you can’t sell for lower. if the coin supply is increased across the board and rested tannin sold for 1 gold you’d see tannin at some fraction of that price as it objectively has less value…
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OK, you’re now tying in aspects that were not part of the OP, since it was about deflation in the TP. But, those fixed costs are open to change as well. For taxes, what company wouldn’t raise the taxes if they knew most players disposable wealth was increased. And for repair, if AGS were to implement a system change to increase wealth, why would you assume they wouldn’t balance that with an increased sink mechanism, such as increasing property costs (and hence the taxes) or repair costs?
The OP stated that based on the fluctuations in price of one commodity, there was clearly deflation occurring. If this is indeed true, which a single commodity price on a single server doesn’t in fact prove, then the solution must actually address deflation. To quote actual economics theory, " In economics, deflation is a decrease in the general price level of goods and services. Deflation usually happens when supply is high (when excess production occurs), and when demand is low (when consumption decreases). " So the issue remains around supply and demand. Increasing wealth or disposable income does not address supply and demand issues, since having more money does not make someone want to buy goods that they see no value in. Particularly when storage is a concern (my storage space does have value to me. Someone’s 10K flint arrows don’t).
And as for your tannin example, on my server, tannin and rested tannin are not the same price. But even in your example, the prices are not objective, but subjective, since if I want to make rugged leather, I can use tannin, or rested tannin. The rested tannin will increase the chance of additional returns, but if rested tannin costs 1 gold and tannin costs 0.25, unless the rested gives me a 400% increase, the ROI on tannin is greater. And yes, it means I need more rawhides or course leather, but the overall savings of 0.75 gold per rugged leather probably makes it cost effective to buy the course leather and more tannin rather than hope to get a good return on the rested tannin. Or, I could just gather more and buy more basic tannin. So again, regardless of the price, the perceived value is subject to the buyer.
Cheers
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Of course the price is going to plummet as more and more people that are actually bothered about getting it already have it.
The thread title consists of three ideas. That there is deflation. That void ore pricing is one of the “clearest signs” and then a proposal for a wealth tax as a solution.
Acknowledging that there is deflation, I made the statement “they can make prices go up if they want”.
You quoted that statement and responded “This does nothing to change the situation”.
I understand that what you meant was that increasing the gold supply in the economy would not affect the relative decreasing price of void ore. I agree.
My reference to “make prices go up” by introducing inflation through increased mob drops would however do something to “change the situation” by making fixed costs like housing tax and repair costs more affordable.