Examples please. Remember we are talking about MMOs not FPS. The MMOs that were full pvp have always became small nich games. PvP Full loot have always failed.
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The problem with that development thought process is that the masses and casual gamer will always buy and leave the game regardless. So catering to them is a waste. They make you look good by increasing your sales at the start and look bad a month later in the retention department.
Who stays playing games? The PVP crowd. A good PvP game always gets the PvP crowd to stick around and that game tends to thrive a long time. Eve is a great example. Still live, made with pvp in mind and will still be played long after this game is dead in 3 months. Why will this game die in 3 months? Didnt cater to the right crowd.
Sorry but when all is said and doneâŚthe pvp will be all this game has left and it will live or die based on if the developers decide to change course and turn this game into the greatest pvp game ever made in the last 10 years. Or they can do nothing and just let it die in 3 months.
One thing is for sure. PvP crowd keeps games alive. PvE crowd ruins them and moves on to the next one while making sure no PvP can ever exist. Its a sad cycle that has ruined many games and will continue.
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Well Itâs not my first MMO but I enjoyed WOW, lineage, dofus and company. So I will said hopefully for me, cause I will not play a game full loot , more stress for games instead of enjoying it after a good hard day of work. The thing if itâs a game like those, you will have a back storie to enjoy and a world when you can explore without being harassed by players, instead of the games that focus only on pvp there is no real background stories, nor quest to know what happen and no developpement of the storie. Each games has a good and bad thing, but the reality is they not good nor bad, itâs depend on what you seek in the game. Some people enjoy pvp, and want this world with pvp ( a full scall war with a full loot) and other want just to enjoy the game (like going solo in skyrim, or two worldsâŚ).
Posting this for the record. If PVP only severs are added at some point. They all will be dead in 90 days.
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Which is likely mostly due to the execution of those games. Iâve never seen a high quality PvP-driven MMO, except possibly Vanilla WoW - which wasnât PvP only, but Faction vs Faction was very emphasized.
In any other genre however - be it strategy, moba, fps, fighting, racing etc. PvP is what makes the games enticing and long-lasting. In a broader context PvE-driven online games is the niche, not the other way around.
Your ignoring the fact it was also the biggest and most successful MMO in history. Numbers have proven majority of people want PvE not PvP.
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casual gamer will always buy and leave the game regardless. So catering to them is a waste. They make you look good by increasing your sales at the start and look bad a month later in the retention department.
Who stays playing games? The PVP crowd.
Can you quote any study on this? Most of the talks I watch at GDC say exactly the opposite of what youâre saying, but hey, I could still be biased. Show me your data, please.
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Yup. Itâs not even close - PvP is a niche of a niche. In fact, most gamers want to play Candy Crush or some mobile nonsense. PC games are a niche. RPGs are a sub-niche. PvP MMO games are so small it borders on a cult.
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I never said that I donât like PvP games, I just said that NW is focused on the mass of players and the mass of players is usually more casual. AGS aims to get and retain as many players as possible and that is why NW we could say that it is a soft mmorpg that is not aimed so much at the hardcore as the casual. Both can enjoy it but by chance if you impose PvP on him, he may end up leaving the game. Let the casual enjoy the game in their own way that does not have to be the same as yours.
Again, what makes you think casuals donât enjoy PvP?
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Their inability to compete on a level playing field.
And how many games tried to copy that and failed? It cant be done. WOW is a one and done mmo. If you try to copy it and water down games liek new world with WoW mechanics they die.
History has shown this. How many MMOâs have you gone through since WoW? Thats real question. WoW may be a success, but how many MMOâs came out in the last 20 years have failed because they tried to copy it?
Your way = more failures. My way = gaming success. That is what you have to realize. Your bullshit PVE doesnt work. Games keep dying because they never add any risk versus reward. Look at full loot games like Tarkov. Thriving even with the crazy amount of bugs it has. Why does it continue? The pvp is good.
So you can say WoW is a success all you want. 20+ games have tried to copy them since and all have failed. New world will be the next in line. PvE = failure. PvP = Active game. History has proven that every single time a new mmo is released and fails.
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Bad sarcasm is still bad.
An idea that was not arrived at logically cannot be replaced logically.
Itâs unfortunate the PvP crowd thinks SO highly of themselves, and thinks thereâs just SO MANY of them. There just arenât that many people that want PvP RPG games in the world. But the few there are are COMPLETELY convinced they are legion and just waiting for the right game. The fact that people who invest in and create games disagree is totally lost on them.
Such is life.
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Well, I consider myself casual (lvl 36, playing about 10 hours a week), and I havenât deemed any encounters unfair this far. Apart from when a lvl 50+ hunted me down once.
The crucial factor for commercial success as I see it is not whether the game is PvP or PvE, but rather the mechanics of the game, no matter if itâs PvP or PvE. Itâs perfectly possible to make PvP games that is compatible with casuals, just as you can make PvE games that is not.
E.g. there is nothing that makes PvP inherently hardcore, and with the foundation AGS have here I think itâs a shame that they didnât believe enough in their initial idea to continue tuning the game to be a more casual friendly PvP game.
You can PvP a lot in this game. It just has to be fair and organized. So are you talking about fair and balanced PvP, or Open World PvP?
Their initial idea had people fighting naked with newbie swords in Open World PvP. It was ⌠bad.
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Open world PvP can be fair, without being organized. Iâm also skeptical about full loot, however always having PvP enabled, or getting it enabled on enemy land, or having zones that are more PvP heavy would be welcome changes to me as the game stands now.
I also would have welcomed a game akin to Rust, with a persistent world, and more emphasis on teaming up - but that would be a completely different game than what we have today. If they are going to pivot that far itâs better to make a separate game.
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Your way? donât think that you create content nor games, nor managing an industry. Anyway, if you speack about the battleroyal (the same mechanic as the first battle royal years from Arma 2) the recent success is because the time a match take, 40 min or less, that why they have people on it, and the same guys are jumping from tarkov to COD, pubg and etc. For you and itâs just your own opinion, but there is mmo that working good even WoW heâs still there by the way, and they are more like final fantasy online, dofus, destiny 2⌠They are lot of PVP games but how much they failed? much more. The community that let alive a game, unfortunetly they are not pvp players, pvp players are quickly bored, they need always content and thatâs the truth, they donât need lore nor a community that will like the world and explore it, they want just the thrill of adrenaline with fighting and risk for rewards, the other stuff doesnât concern them.
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I would challenge that as a demonstrably false statement. I mean, ok, I guess it could once in a blue moon, but the vast majority of the time it will be group vs group, and the larger group will almost always win.
Full loot isnât Open World PvP so Iâd separate that out, entirely. What happens when you die in PvP is another question that only complicates the matter.
I would say, on the face of it, that it is NOT possible to have open world PvP that is fair. And if it were, weâd see people choosing to do it, instead of people who want willing victims demanding there be servers where people are LITERALLY FORCED to become their zerg victims.
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