In general, any games, tabletop to online, a tank is this:
Lots of HP
Lots of defense
Heavy gear all the way
A tank should be the main aggro, very hard to kill, doesn’t need to dodge, slow as… well, very slow. So DPS can have their way a healer heals the tank.
So far, I have yet to see a top tank build that follow these simple rules. Tank with more STR than CON? Not all heavy gear? Etc…
Cuz right now, these builds are not tanks, they are simple fighters with heavy gear.
Only 190 hours in the game, still learning a lot. But it baffles me that a tank cannot be, well, a tank, something that you pound and doesn’t die. It has to behave like a rogue and dodge everything and can receive 2-3 hits at best, before running out of stamina.
Sorry to be offtopic and simply talking about the game. I apologize.
When I was a young Padawan tank, I thought the same as you and just stacked Con.
But then I hit 60 and had to hold aggro with DPS doing a ton of damage. Soon I realized that, well I need to do more damage to hold aggro. Taunts are great for initial aggro and when someone steals aggro, but they are not a viable option to hold aggro. Also, I run Reverse Stab, which is amazing for reducing my two taunt cool downs.
It really depends on your spec tree and ability builds. S/S is a great tank build that allows some DPS but how much STR will you pick, while you have to mitigate that choice with lower Cons. Its all about your play style.
BTW tank with more STR and less CON is really DPS. Good for soloing content but dont market yourself as a tank for any instance above star…
1.) Weapons
2.) Gear
3.) Ability
4.) Experience
5.) Group or Solo
Conclusion …anyone can Tank provided you have the 3 variables covered… heals, protection, and taunts.
Indeed, if not full CON, S+S, it’s not a tank, just a heavy fighter. Which can be fun too.
Plus, the way the XPs are setup in this game, never, never, never attack something your level and up. It’s a waste of XP/hour. One level lower even, means more dmg done, less received, for 2 XPs less. But XP per hour is much greater.
I have yet to run Gen/Laz as a tank. Figure I will grind out my WM before using my orbs there. Will most likely have to pick up some more HP as well, not sure if 12k is enough for a tank in there.
For just about all other content in this game, I find a DPS tank is the way to go no question.
i would add… you cant spec 100% in con for a tank and be decent. You need to get the numbers up to 300 with gear, food, and gems. That way you can mitigate dmg and still keep enough DPS/taunt on bosses to be effective.
The problem is that it difficult to make 1 build for pvp and for pve. Pvp you dont give a shit about aggro so you can go 300 con 150str which imo is generally the ideal for pvp as you still do a shit ton of dmg with WH still. Usually in wars you should be on the point with clear out PoD and SunderShock and then you have a S&S to soak dmg and cc with shield bash and rush and use defient stance for increased resist and health back after a bit.
For PVE you need dmg otherwise you lose aggro to the fucking healer which happens so often if your not on top of aggro. Obviously carnelian and shield bash and defient are ur main taunts, I would also put a carnelian in ur 2nd weapon. You should also have Final blow as ur third attack has increased dmg and threat. I am still working on making a proper build for tank right now using full void for the con and crit resist. You want defensive perks but at the same time some dmg perks.
I know the kind of tank your thinking of, I tried 400+ con it does not scale well only got to 18k hp and thats with the infinity crystal, your better of with 300 con and getting health perk on all ur jewelry. True tanks are not viable right now. I would love to see a new weight class called super heavy that makes ur resistances higher dmg lower increased threat by 50% and slowed by 10%
I agree with ya on that. All CON is not an option either. 25% STR, 75% CON is normal for a tank.
But equipment impacts so much the stats in this game, it can maybe allow to still maintain this 25/75 ratio without put a point in STR.
Plus, as I wrote, the XP/hour of play is what makes you level faster. On mobs your level and higher, it takes usually twice the hits, just for 2 XPs more. So, dmg in solo PVE shouldn’t be an issue.
Yep, I agree with your gems and all. I’m S+S tank-wannabe-really_a_fighter + WH. So far. I love the WH.
But I LOVE the tank mentality: “Try to kill me muth…” Ya know.
I’ve tanked all PvE content in the game and run gen / laz over a hundred times each. I’ve participated in a high percentage of wars on a high pop server and regularly engage in all forms of pve/pvp. Here’s my perspective:
There’s no reason to be a full con tank
My current stat split is something like 260 STR / 200 CON. The only reason I would go full meat-shield would be with a void-gauntlet offhand in a war as a point sponge because it provides a nutty amount of utility even with zero points invested in damage stats. That being said, I personally don’t like that playstyle and prefer to aim for mitigations over pure HP. This includes wearing fully gemmed heavy armor, popular damage type mitigations on shield and amulet, defiant stance, and various sources of fortify like keenly fortified.
For dungeons you want to contribute damage for a few reasons:
Easier aggro
Faster clears (which means less opportunity for pugs to die)
No PvE content in the game requires or even benefits from a pure meat-sponge.
If you know how to block/dodge according to mob patterns you can take little to no damage.
If you push to 300 STR you get grit on auto attacks, this is incredible for not getting stagger locked by trash pulls.
To illustrate this point, consider the Cilla boss fight in Lazarus. Some pugs find this difficult but as a SS user you can respond to attack patterns with appropriate block/dodge and mitigate a high percent of damage even with low CON while constantly weaving in auto-attacks. When she is in mage phase you can contribute a high amount of damage by swapping to hammer with stacked ancient damage buffs / topaz / coating and allow a team of moderate DPS to turn into a team of high DPS - clearing the boss before she starts AoEing which is what most pugs struggle with.
For PvP, there is situational utility of a full CON tank especially if you can bring a high amount of utility/CC with VG or Hammer offhand. That being said, good PvPers will quickly recognize you as a wet noodle and ignore you. Threat on players is more of a literal concept. If you provide zero kill threat, you may lose some tactical advantages. I rarely have issues surviving in a war with mixed stats even without heals unless I am heavily focused.
IMO, the 300 STR grit should be moved to CON for various reasons, but mostly it feels like more of a tank stat. This would be a great incentive for people to run higher CON builds which are currently useless in a vast majority of content.
Yep 100% agree with what you said. I rarely find a reason to go 300con and in reality I play 250str/200con or the reverse sometimes. The points u made for dungeons 100% correct.
There needs to be a fundamental change to tanks IE shields should get there own skill tree with tank oriented perks and there needs to be a new weight class like I mentioned in my previous comment. 300str perk should be moved to 300con but I can see the arguments why it should stay the same
@Recksters That’s kind of my whole point. I have run a full tank build and it feels pointless. It can work in the sense of - you can clear an endgame dungeon. It’s just suboptimal in my opinion. Tanking in this game is done by blocking, dodging and mitigation. If you are trying to eat direct hits to your HP, an extra 4k is not going to help. The perks for 250 and 300 con are simply not worth it.
200+ const, threat gems on weapons, shield, heavy armor or at least heavy armor on chest/legs.
That’s how you can label yourself a tank. Whatever other weapon you have is optional.
I’m a semi-tank healer. My const just needs a bit more points but I have enough in foc to be a good healer and deal fair dmg, and enough in const (though I use med armor mostly) to take a bunch of hits from mobs (Bosses are another story, esp with my current armor) and keep my teammates alive so long as they aren’t too squishy or reckless.
The worse thing for tanks right now is the mobs constant body push you around like a rag doll. Nothing makes you feel less of a tank than that. The shield-stamina block is very good for action combat pve but it got nerfed, or rather, it remained weak while the Mobs KEEP getting Buffed until even a lev 63 normal mob hits harder than Elites at Beta.
Body block is solved in other games but it’s an ongoing problem here. Can’t even call it a feature. In fact, body-block is the most dangerous cc of the game, and for me, it’s about 90% of my deaths in pve.
That’s what I’m seeing being the biggest weakness for a real tank: stamina drops as much as dodging, it shouldn’t be even close. Or maybe it’s end-game tanks that can use stamina better.
Yea this bothers me a lot. The worst offender is honestly not bosses but trash mobs which can just stagger lock, juggle, or knock you all over the place in large numbers. It can be really challenging to corral some pulls in gen or laz for this reason and usually the “optimal” way is to have a team you trust who know how to LoS pulls so they all clump up.
From what I’ve seen, some mobs do insane amounts of damage, and will burn through your stamina shield, and then do enough damage to kill you. Which is why in the last tank guides I saw, you have to learn to dodge the big attacks and block the others. Which is nearly impossible with other mobs pushing you around and cc you constantly, and the constant animation locks in this game
There are some items to increase stamina tho. And perks to decrease stamina consumption. Still feels not well-tuned for current mob’s level of power. But it seems Devs are busy with nerfing stuff for now. Especially cuz people cry this and that is op, and they have neglected pve to a degree…
