That is only because you are not specced correctly.
Rapier used intelligence as a secondary attribute, and you have none of it. The damage is split 0.9 dex and 0.65 int, which means you get 58% of it from dex and 42% of it from intelligence.
You’re completely missing out on the 42% portion. The best way to get damage would be to evenly add points into dex and int, point for point, because they would hit diminishing returns at the same rate, getting the best return per point on each. (Edit: did more calculation below, each stat has different break points)
However, attribute bonuses come into play, like 300 dex, so people choose to go higher in dex and lower in int. However that way they are hitting higher diminishing returns on dex and not getting the full benefit from int.
This works the same for every weapon that used two stats.
Rapier is a crutch in the sense that players can use it solely for the escape ability. When you’re in light/medium armor, you can do 3 light rolls/4 medium rolls with Evade and then Fleche out still with enough movement speed buff from Evade to gain a bit of distance, then swap to your Bow/Fire and gain even more distance. If there’s a ranged player chasing you, then you just Riposte their ranged auto and get 25% cooldown for Fleche and Evade, making it even easier to create more distance.
What I’m trying to say is it’s too easy to escape with Rapier with little input because of the short cooldowns. It would be balanced if I needed to attack to get that kind of CDR, like VG’s or Spear’s CDR for example. The easiest thing ASG can do to balance this is by shifting the CDR to a more offensive-style than defensive. You’d have to attack more to get the same CDR, but that means you can’t just slot it on your back bar and run with it when approached by a melee player.
P/S: I’m a Rapier main so I’m not even biased when I say this.
nah , maybe with all perks and heavy shot and head shot with 400 plus dex
dont need to say with that single shot you lose 5x more dps at least coz you lose 4 sec and cant hit anything but mass of people that are being healed.
worst skill in game no one uses it any more.
cant believe people still complain about it.
been in light armour all the time happened only once in 2 months i got one shot with over 200 rush games played and countless duels.
happens all the time with void gauntled btw.
What a math with percents? How did you get these 58% and 42%? Plz explain.
I know that effectiveness of every* next point of dex become lower, but it doesn’t mean you need to invest your points equally to dex and int.
I would bet that 250 dex give you more damage than 125 dex and 125 int.
take a green weapon as your rapier and you will see there is zero difference in your gameplay .
thats how bad dmg from rapier is for most people.
but its movement is op in 1% of player base .
so remove that and no one will use that weapon.
also only ones being affected us musket guys .
bow can switch to spear just the same .
Fellow Rapier main here. Every weapon has a niche that it fills in some capacity and a rapiers niche is that it is a very high Mobility type weapon so of course it will be used by a lot of people as a means to move around a lot especially because it is a weapon that is focused on 1v1. It also does have cooldown reduction if you use it offensively specifically by using evade as well as the one of the attributes from the grace tree. The thing is with the rapier, it doesn’t have much going for outside of the grace tree since the blood tree is terrible in comparison. Its one of the few weapons in a balanced area because outside of its niche, its not very useful elsewhere.
Check out this link about diminishing returns and attribute spread on weapons: Diminishing Returns
In particular, click on the spoiler and show the image.
Rapier is one of the weapons that uses two attributes. Single attribute weapons such as great axe or bow get ALL their damage from just one stat, leaving the rest for constitution. Weapons that use two attributes HAVE TO use both in order to make use of the same damage potential, at the cost of extra constitution.
The damage is split 0.9 dex and 0.65 int for rapier. If you divide 0.9 by 1.55 you get 58%. That’s the 0.9 portion that dex adds and it’s 58% of the rapier damage potential. If you divide 0.65 by 1.55 you get 42%. That’s the int portion of the damage.
If you are at a very low level, it is better to just add into the main weapon stat, but once you get above a 150 in that stat start adding into the secondary stat because the main stat enters higher diminishing returns. The higher you go into main stat from that point on, it is better to go into secondary stat. But the secondary hits diminishing returns too, so you have to find the right spot.
I’d have to calculate each break point to see what the best stat spread is, which I haven’t done, but I’ll tell you one thing for certain – putting no points into intelligence is killing your dps for that weapon.
Ok, I did some more calculations since you asked for numbers.
First 100 points of dex add 146 damage. Or 73 per 50 points.
Next 50 points add 58.5.
Next 50 points add 52.5.
Next 50 points add 47.
And the final 50 add 41.
For intelligence, first 100 points add 106 damage. Or 53 per 50 points.
Next 50 add 42.5.
Next 50 add 38.
Next 50 add 34.
And the final 50 add 29.5.
At 150 int you are getting more damage per point than getting close to 300 would give. Meaning when you get to 250 dex, you should put 150 into int, and the rest into constitution. (Or sooner if you are leveling – once the main stat gets to 150, secondary becomes better for its first 100 points, then 150 to 250, dex becomes better again, then int again for 50 points). Then dex is better to 300.
So leveling wise it would be best to go 150 main stat → 100 secondary → 250 main stat → 150 secondary → 300 main stat.
Your ultimate goal should be 300/150/50 or 250/150/100. Unless you are Void Gauntlet, in which case you are better off splitting evenly.
I’m not asking for the mobility and evasion to be nerfed. I’m asking for it to be reworked so the intended purpose of use changes. The evasion and mobility stay the same, but the CDR shifts from being passive to active, meaning you need to deal damage with it to reap the benefit of short CD. Otherwise, you’re just slotting it to get away like most ranged players currently do. At that point, why do you even slot Rapier? Bow/Musket would be far better for you as a ranged build.
It already has a function like that when you use Evade’s Crescendo that reduces its cooldown by 30% on each light attack. Refreshing Strikes from the blood tree gives a 1% reduction on all skills for any Rapier hits. Fleche’s Quick Lunge reduces its cooldown by 80% on kill. Fleche even has a perk that reduces its cooldown when you get a backcrit with it. Then there is obviously Riposte which reduces other Rapier skill cooldowns by 20% on hit.
That playstyle you want as a rework already exists. Its just harder to use vs just using it as a survivability tool. What they REALLY need to do it buff the Blood tree. Right now blood tree is considered a meme with how it works. Every time I see someone use Tondo in pvp, I laugh and cry at the same time.
Not sure why you’re trying to turn this into something that it isn’t. The rapier is an extremely strong OFFHAND weapon, with one skill that in my opinion is absolutely busted combined with other passives on the weapon.
And youre totally right, it is essentially a dodge generator, which is op. If I’m playing melee, or vg melee, I don’t even try to chase them. Between the latency issues, evade, light armor dodge cancel, and fleche, it’s not even worth it.
Are you kidding me? The Bow is by far the hardest weapon in the game to use and master, it should definitely have the highest reward. We also have to deal with how clunky the weapon is.
