Why a mainly PvE mindset has litte to offer

I also want to add I was never a fan of the orginal game, on a quick overview I just saw it as frustrating.

And gameplay wise stagger locking just isn’t fun, it’s not even present in fighting games or moba’s, there are lot’s of heavy PvP experiences and history that conveys that.

All I’m after is what this version of the game is currently with a good PK system and possibly some resource changes considered, I also think the drop rate is rather obsurd but if it has to be that way so be it, I don’t think I’m being greedy here or demanding for the “hardcore” version of this game.

You have just proven my point: you are off the “soon to be extinct” kind. 10,000+ after Archage unchained release? Wow… who you want to impress with that number? Might be high for people only experienced in small niche games of the genre such as Ultima online or Archage. Because it doesn’t matter if you or your friends liked WoW or played it. Literally millions of people did and still do to this very day. And WoW is still P2P with a subscription which not many games held to this day.

And i tell you what: they can not switch to a F2P model in WoW. Not for stupid imaginary reasons some hardcore fans are making up as no reasonable shop inventory or such. No. Simply because the amount of players would melt their servers. In 2008/2009 WoW had the highest peak of players with well over 12 million active accounts. Ind 2014 they released facts around WoW which includes a total of over 100 million Accounts created. Some really dense fanboys thought that the 2008 12 million players have been the same that started in 2004/2005 and have only grown since then. Which is wrong. People have always quit WoW from beginning onwards. Key is: until the Cataclysm more people started to play than actually quitting it.

How does it relate to your statement? Well from what i read, you and your friends are the more hardcore PvP type of players. But those are a tiny fraction of a possible player base. And no company putting millions into development will ever make a game that suits that needs because its a bad business decission. Back in the 90s eraly 2000 niche gams like UO and DAoC and development wasn’t so expensive in comparison, and with no other alternatives around it was possible. But in todays day and age, production value needs to be funded and games are not made as fanservice. They are products that need to make money.

And again: the pure hatdcore PvP crowd is simply not big enough to fund a project that costs millions to make and maintain. As simply as that. And it doesn’t matter what you and your friends want and play. Neither do my friends matter, because personal experience and people we know are far to small numbers in this calculations. They calculate with a plus/minus in hundreds of thousands of players today, not your dozens of gaming friends.

Hope it was made clear that they changed the mode from always on full loot PvP for the better and the longlivity of the game to a more profitable model that attracts more players. Always on PvP fans especially with full loot are a way to small crowd to even matter for most of the game projects.

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What the OP needs to realise that pure hardcore PvP mmorpg do no exist for a reason.

I would not say you are being greedy, and i do understand your wish. But the things you want is just not feaseable or profitable for AGS to fullfill. And actually for any kind of big project.

When i read “loss of items will serve the market” i see most people do not understand how things work. Losing items to an unfair situation that one has put many hours into to gain is not a concept made for people that don’t play alö day every day. So the so called casuals have two options: spend that same amount of time to get back where they once were or, since they don’t need to play to live and this is more frustrating than fun, quit the game.

What most people that look down on casuals do not understand is: casuals are the main income to games. They pay the bills for staff and development. Not the hardcore crowd. And they keep the games alive. Having dedicated fans for a game is nice to have, but has very little impact on the lifecycle of a game.

That is the reason why WoW became and is to this very day the most successful MMORPG of all times. Is it a very good game? No. But it is(was) good enough for hundred of millions of players to play it for a while.

Oh they do exist. Mortal Online 1&2 or Last Oasis do. But at least for Last Oasis i can tell that the developers actually got the wrong idea of how many really want to play hardcore PvP full loot games, seeing it is sitting around 400 peak players down from 95k at start.

@Arrclyde 400 peak players. Is that enough to pay for servers to be maintained and the wages of the Dev team to continue working on the game. They are so niche and commercially unviable for longevity.

The core feature of hardcore PvP is that it is predatory by nature. You consume those weaker and smaller than you. The strong get stronger. Unless there is an regular influx of new players, the remaining players cannibalise themselves (or form pacts) to the point where game reaches a stalemate and dies.

Oh and btw… AGS is a western company making an western MMO. Your examples are for how to NOT make MMOs.

You’re rushing the gun like I stated to a “PvP server” of which I wouldn’t even label it as such.

A PK system, let’s take Lineage 2 for example, let me tell you that a casual or inept player does NOT HAVE TO TOUCH ANYONE if they don’t want to and they will not drop anything, you don’t even drop if you flag up.
You only risked dropping items (not ALL OF THEM), if you’re a “bad ass” pker who’s had his fair share.

I state again, I’m not refferring to the extreme measures of UO where your entire workload drops on the floor, that is just silly (which they late gave an “insurance” system that gold sinks you and you keep your loot, provided you have gold).

It’s frustrating again to see people rushing to the idea of people who enjoy PvP just want to bully people who spend less time or beneath their skill level and just want to strip them of anything, I am merely looking for more activity and conflict, not the greed and lack of moral compass that you keep describing!

I’m not after a childish spat with you, ofc Unchained is in the toilet, I’ll admit it is in the toilet but it’s not for the reasons you’ve stated, the publisher’s from the west that took it on couldn’t stop the korean leads/devs giving them updates that the west did not want + more importantly it was bugged.

I am not jumping any gun. Actually i would like to see PvP servers. But they will not prove what you think they will.

And again: Archage and Lineage are not good examples for successful MMOs in the western hemisphere.

EU was one of the top dog mmo’s of Europe for ages.

Ofc WoW dwarfed anything and you could disregard anything as “insignificant” but pure numbers and success has very little to do with quality, WoW was an excellent convienience not the hallmark of the greatest experience ever concieved in mmorpg history.

Like I stated previously, there is music on youtube with over billions of views that no one with refined and experienced music taste would give a left or right shit about.

No, actually it did not fail for the reasons YOU think it did. Has nothing to do with being childish. People in different regions like different playstyles. For the west, Archage is not a profitable concept and not widely accepted. Just its big in Korea doesn’t mean it has to be big here. Not at all and actually the opposite.

By the way: i am discussing on the base of the headline of this very Topic. Because in general, its a totally false statement. Yes, PvE might not be good for the longlivity of the game for SOME. But its incorrect for the majority of players of New World.

Quality is sujectiv. Success of a game is objectiv when it comes to making money of a product, which games are. Nobody that needs to make a living wants to make a game a hand full of people thing that it is “the best MMO” when the production costs millions or even tens of millions.

The presonal precepted “quality” for some isn’t even second goal when it comes to make it a commercially successful product.

Oh I completely understand that money and safety comes first, you only have to look at all the addicted people who loved League of Legends slander its downfall of quality of its latter stages and it simply turned into a monopoly that gives you a quick fix if you’re bored. Ofc I’m very happy that Riot employee’s and their chinese benefactor’s have the cushuiest of pensions planned as the result of them not improving the experience to be slowly adorded but by simply making it incredibly accessible and adding content after content without a care for balancing or long term enjoyment, one of the greatest marketting monopolies in the world.

When devs reminisce over some of the greatest achievements in the development of mmo’s, they reference the early stages like Ultima Online etc, they’ll never go on about how Asmongold had to do the same dungeon 100+ times to get unique mount so he could show it off at a transmog competition.

That’s rubbish. I haven’t seen a single post about anyone wanting to remove the pvp aspect of NW. It’s the other way around. PVP heavy players are the ones asking for pvp to be forced on everyone. It’s so you can kill and spawn camp everyone instead of going out and exploring the mmo environment.

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instead of going out and exploring the mmo environment.

Which simply comprises of going out and pressing E first, tag that mob and we all get the drop.

Everyone succeeds and there is no losers, let’s give this effort a medal.

AGS has probably finally turned off the debate with New World. No triple A studio in the world will ever again try to integrate PvP in any relevant form into an MMORPG. New World has finally pushed it into the niche where it belongs.

I thank AGS for spending so much money to come to this final answer.

Have you considered that maybe we don’t play the game with the sole purpose of interacting with you and catering to your desires?


I hope you do realize that all you write about quality and long term playability and enjoyment is your totally personal opinion.

Because for the majority of people enjoying these games its obviously good enough to enjoy such a game. And that does not make them wprth any less than you and your high standards. Your high standards might be a problem if you keep insiting to have them met in order to have fun, because as development goes on, it will become more and more expensive which means aiming for “hardcore high standart players” becomes less and less feasible for companies outside a few small indi devs.

And you woumd be surprised how small the hardcore gamer aka “quality of standart” player crowd is. Luckily those “never satisfied” are very small and ignoreable, because if Devs aim for this very limited crowd (for what reason ever) we would have many many many more games that need to be shut down shortly after release of a multi million dollar development, due to isufficient funding through sales.

You sound like “effort” is something important in games on a universal level. It might surprise you, but most people and i dare to say the overwhelming majority plays games for having fun, for distracting from their everyday life and for entertainment purpose… not to become “the best of the best of the best” or even to “work” in games like a second job.

Those that want to compete do that in games that have a competitive mainframe. Which means: the starting point is equal and can not be altered, only the players skill decides about victory or loss. And MMORPG are none of that by default.