With 80% playerbase loss - its time to bring back Full loot?

Or just nothing drops and you flag if you feel like doing PvP. Like it is now. It is good that way. Most people don’t want to be forced into something. Adding anything like that makes the game loose like 80 or 90% of players instantly.

I have a history of full loot pvp games, but this dude has a few good points…


Ah yes, i ever wanted to gather two hours some materials just to get rekt by some people and loose all i got + farm set! The best way to waste lifetime. What a great idea. Would be so much fun i cant imagine.

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How would that solve the problem?
Most issues with the game now it’s because of bugs. Stop trying to force PvP on people!

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So did you expect that more than 900k people still playing the game? That’s crazy thought, most of the people go away because this game isn’t for them, or they prefer another MMOs, or RTS. Look for the statistics of the other most player MMOs on Steam, you’ll be surprised.

AGS pulled off the same insane 180°-turn with PvP that they also did with the combat system and stagger. The system was not flawless, but the concept behind it was sound and everything was deisgned to work great together.

For anybody not knowing how PvP worked back in closed Alpha (from The Evolution of New World’s PvP - News | New World).

PvP was …

… full loot and open world with only Outposts acting as sanctuaries. Everyone was vulnerable to attack, at any time, from other players in the rest of the world. In order to attack, players would flag Criminal Intent. If you died as a Criminal you would experience full gear and inventory loss. If you died to a Criminal you would lose all of your inventory but keep your equipped gear with durability damage taken.
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players.

That being said, for me there are three kinds of PvP-environments and I want to show that New World never was the typical “Full-loot PvP” game.

A: always vulnerable / always ready to attack
(forced PvP like e.g. Rust)

B: always vulnerable / not always ready to attack
(forced PvP, but with predator opt-in like New World’s closed Alpha PvP)

C: not always vulnerable / not always ready to attack
(full opt-in PvP like we have in New World now)

Given that you could only flag Criminal Intent in safezones (like we nowadays can only flag PvP in settlements) I find that New World version of PvP was designed exactly the right way to accomodate very passionate PvP-players and risk-averse players.

Firstly, there was a constant excitement from the threat of being vulnaerable to attack and this made for a very interesting play-style, both in solo play and also in groups and companies. Offering protection and providing equiptment and consumables was a main task of companies. Players devided into gatherers and guards to get materials from one side of the map to the other.
Secondly, there was room for peaceful players not flagged Criminal gathering side-by-side and one wouldn’t have to worry that the other player cheap shot you after you gathered all the trees or mined the iron (because without being flagged Criminal you couldn’t attack). But in case a gank squad or a high level pker came along you would immediately see that they flagged Criminal and could flee (which you can nowadays even better).
Thirdly, in case a Criminal caught you off guard you could hope that a fellow random player not flagged Criminal could help you and fight off the Criminal (which is not possible today beacuse you completely opt-out of the PvP world and can’t interact).

I am unsure if this system would help improve the state of the economy but it would certainly encourage crafting and gathering beacuse of the additional item sink. It would also help in slowing down the process of leveling and people reaching the level 60 too fast.
In my opinion AGS should have kept this system and implemented additional features to make ganking less interesting or more punishing. E.g. integrating a most wanted mechanic where players that killed lower level players get a reward on their heads or are marked on the world map to see for everyone. I could even imagine a Criminal scale depending on the severity of the players toxicity (a Criminal career similar to a Karma system) from Mugger to Footpad to Outlaw to Most Wanted with different benefits and downsides attached.


If you want to talk about things, AGS should not have kicked, like they did, i would say the bigger loss was having no building at all. Here is where the game lost it’s most important resource sink. and also a big part of it’s heart, you are shipwrecked on an island and want to conquer it, but are not allowed to build a homestead of outpost. I know the open world building needed to change, but we could have it instanced for players and companies and open world for governing companies aka the forts each territory has. If these where free build by the players we could have a whole new level to pvp, because having good designs or massive amounts of resources would change how those battles play out.

Personally I’d find full loot too much. I’d then rather play something like Rust or EFT. Also at this point knowing how bad and unbalanced the game is full loot is even more turn off. I think the best middle road would be just PVP servers. Like WoW had when it was top quality game.

This game needs PvP servers. Now should they be full loot?

I think full loot is too hardcore. I believe in partial loot drop which could be just what you have in your inventory.
One of the cores of the game is the sense of progression. I wouldn’t play the game otherwise, but that’s me.

For those full loot players, instead gear could degrade way more upon death.

Some tweaks of the current build but with permanent pvp on and inventory loot drop would be a good start.

the devs already said no PVP servers.
maybe in some time they could change their minds, but at the moment, won’t happen.

Let’s at least compare peak to peak 900k vs 400k. I’m all for Pvp specific servers and some rp servers

Maybe we need to be more annoying.

if you think you can top the amount some have been so far, go ahead XD

I just take 1 example in response to the video up : RUST. Working perfectly, full loot , hardcore pvp , farm etc. Nothing more to say this kind of game work if you follow a good path and if you are not limited by the fact that yes you will lost a lot of casual players (but that happen already without 900K to 350k in a month). Im pretty sure if new world had stay with an idea of insecurity everytime you put a feet in certain zone tagged as only pvp or something like Albion with High tier ressources + high loot only pvp → dangerous = more rewards = take risk = die or win. he would have found a tons of players staying and enjoying it compared with the game now. this challenge combined with the fact that you have to be a prey or a hunter to found what you need is for me an idea sadly abandonned. For me the dev can change this by making a test with the 3 white zone. Make them full pvp with high tier ressources and more luck to find something good + maybe drop of gold or stuff in certain way on people and test it for a week. Hear the returns. Im pretty sure we will find something interesting

Oh aye, that won’t drive the other 20% will it?
Ridiculous idea.

Full Loot - Rest of the 404,437 players will leave, the only one who’d be here running in his undie is you.

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404,437? ey?

Between when I posted the OP and now - we’ve lost another 100k players.

We’re getting close to sub 300k numbers, and concurrent logging in is approaching sub 200k.

If we turn on full loot PVP - at this point I’d wager we’d get an influx of the players (even if every single PVE player quits, which I don’t see why would they, but I guess they are lazy and want only meaningless rewards with no risk) - and all the full loot PVP players from games like EFT/EVE/Rust/Albion would account for 500k, if not more + (Eve has over a few million players)

So, the OP suggests that 80% of the population was going to leave if the game went Full Loot. However, 80% left anyway. If both are true, wouldn’t that suggest that 80% of the remaining 20% would leave?

I didn’t major in math but wouldn’t that mean that implementing Full Loot now would equal a 96% loss of player base?

I love how you rounded 50% down to 80% while also pretending that the day 1 peak is actually a reliable indicator.

Thanks for the laugh

Seriously tho, while I am a long time full loot mmo player I think a move like that would actually kill this game.

lol gotta love these posts, so in his picture the 24 hour peak was 404 thousand then his second post was 303 thousand.

Now given that the hype train has moved on to the next new release and the streamers have switched from praising it to slagging the game off (due to click bait drama posts so they can get more viewers) its not really a surprise that numbers have dropped.

I also dont expect the same level of concurrent activity in a game that is suffering as many problems as this one is currently, you also have to think that every single one of those 913k people who paid and bought a copy have already gone past their refund point certainly in steam and most likely amazon by now.

Yes numbers are down, no they are not critical, if you got 300-400k people playing on weekends and evenings your not doing too badly.

Are there problems with the game… Yes of course there are
Are they fixing them as best as they can as quick as they can… Yes of course they are
Now is this the worst MMO launch I have ever played in, not by a long shot.
Is it the best, also not by a long shot
The game is beautiful, there is plenty of crafting content for me to get through, there is new areas for me to explore, gear to find and things to do for many many many hours yet.

I just wish everyone would stop dooming the game before it has had a chance to get fixed.

If you hate it so much stop playing it and ask for a refund, dont need to destroy it out of petulance and spite because you arent getting what you want done right now.