With 80% playerbase loss - its time to bring back Full loot?

Personally I’d find full loot too much. I’d then rather play something like Rust or EFT. Also at this point knowing how bad and unbalanced the game is full loot is even more turn off. I think the best middle road would be just PVP servers. Like WoW had when it was top quality game.

This game needs PvP servers. Now should they be full loot?

I think full loot is too hardcore. I believe in partial loot drop which could be just what you have in your inventory.
One of the cores of the game is the sense of progression. I wouldn’t play the game otherwise, but that’s me.

For those full loot players, instead gear could degrade way more upon death.

Some tweaks of the current build but with permanent pvp on and inventory loot drop would be a good start.

the devs already said no PVP servers.
maybe in some time they could change their minds, but at the moment, won’t happen.

Let’s at least compare peak to peak 900k vs 400k. I’m all for Pvp specific servers and some rp servers

Maybe we need to be more annoying.

if you think you can top the amount some have been so far, go ahead XD

I just take 1 example in response to the video up : RUST. Working perfectly, full loot , hardcore pvp , farm etc. Nothing more to say this kind of game work if you follow a good path and if you are not limited by the fact that yes you will lost a lot of casual players (but that happen already without 900K to 350k in a month). Im pretty sure if new world had stay with an idea of insecurity everytime you put a feet in certain zone tagged as only pvp or something like Albion with High tier ressources + high loot only pvp → dangerous = more rewards = take risk = die or win. he would have found a tons of players staying and enjoying it compared with the game now. this challenge combined with the fact that you have to be a prey or a hunter to found what you need is for me an idea sadly abandonned. For me the dev can change this by making a test with the 3 white zone. Make them full pvp with high tier ressources and more luck to find something good + maybe drop of gold or stuff in certain way on people and test it for a week. Hear the returns. Im pretty sure we will find something interesting

Oh aye, that won’t drive the other 20% will it?
Ridiculous idea.

Full Loot - Rest of the 404,437 players will leave, the only one who’d be here running in his undie is you.

1 Like

404,437? ey?

Between when I posted the OP and now - we’ve lost another 100k players.

We’re getting close to sub 300k numbers, and concurrent logging in is approaching sub 200k.

If we turn on full loot PVP - at this point I’d wager we’d get an influx of the players (even if every single PVE player quits, which I don’t see why would they, but I guess they are lazy and want only meaningless rewards with no risk) - and all the full loot PVP players from games like EFT/EVE/Rust/Albion would account for 500k, if not more + (Eve has over a few million players)

So, the OP suggests that 80% of the population was going to leave if the game went Full Loot. However, 80% left anyway. If both are true, wouldn’t that suggest that 80% of the remaining 20% would leave?

I didn’t major in math but wouldn’t that mean that implementing Full Loot now would equal a 96% loss of player base?

I love how you rounded 50% down to 80% while also pretending that the day 1 peak is actually a reliable indicator.

Thanks for the laugh

Seriously tho, while I am a long time full loot mmo player I think a move like that would actually kill this game.

lol gotta love these posts, so in his picture the 24 hour peak was 404 thousand then his second post was 303 thousand.

Now given that the hype train has moved on to the next new release and the streamers have switched from praising it to slagging the game off (due to click bait drama posts so they can get more viewers) its not really a surprise that numbers have dropped.

I also dont expect the same level of concurrent activity in a game that is suffering as many problems as this one is currently, you also have to think that every single one of those 913k people who paid and bought a copy have already gone past their refund point certainly in steam and most likely amazon by now.

Yes numbers are down, no they are not critical, if you got 300-400k people playing on weekends and evenings your not doing too badly.

Are there problems with the game… Yes of course there are
Are they fixing them as best as they can as quick as they can… Yes of course they are
Now is this the worst MMO launch I have ever played in, not by a long shot.
Is it the best, also not by a long shot
The game is beautiful, there is plenty of crafting content for me to get through, there is new areas for me to explore, gear to find and things to do for many many many hours yet.

I just wish everyone would stop dooming the game before it has had a chance to get fixed.

If you hate it so much stop playing it and ask for a refund, dont need to destroy it out of petulance and spite because you arent getting what you want done right now.

But guys of course full loot is like the hardcore way but you can agree with me in one thing if they add 1 zone or make the 3 white zone pvp only with great reward, loot high tier in this zone only and more features dont tell me that you wont agree with this idea to give the opportunity to play the game they have first designed. Im sure there is a lot of players who will come back and want to play this challenge

In what world the same Devs that said no PvP exclusive servers, they would bring back something like this?

I personally believe it will happen. They did not say “we wont do it” they said “its not on our design path right now”.

That basically means “we are working on other things and dont have time/plans to do it atm”, thats very different than a hard “No!”.

Players are babies and will cry on somet hings until they get it. marketing will say “what can we do to get more people, or get some back” and then pvp servers will be shot out in one meeting and become a thing.

I dont think pvp servers are a bad thing, but i’d rather see really beneficial flagging options. The upcoming flagging options are a much better idea (i’d even advocate for 20% luck base or something so that luck gear becomes less valuable under a specific amount because of the option to pvp flag).

On the note of full pvp gear drop

No. Just no. Stop with the stupidity. There is are a very good reason why we season designers ignore your pro-complexity, pro-full loot drop, pro-uncondition pvp nutjobs. Its because it dont work. It never has, and it never will. IT drives droves of people away. Amazon should pay attention to this very carefully.

TLDR; you procomplxity/lootdrop/unconditional pvpers are to little a minority to build a major mmo off of.

2 Likes

nope.

Because at some point you’d be hitting the “lowest low” of PVP “opposition” and would actually see an influx of players from other full loot PVP games.

Basically its a breakeven point. At which point do all players leave and only PVP-full-loot crowd remains, where we actually start seeing an increase in player count due to an influx of PVP-full-loot crowd.

The cool thing about PVP-full loot crowd - is that they don’t really need much (PVE) content, as PVP is content in its own, so the DEVs can focus resources (i.e = money) to actually fix critical combat bugs, instead of wasting time and $$ to deal with bots ETC…

Of course my OP was posted before all the shit-storm with duping came about (it was happening since launch, but literally the shit came to revelation about 1-2 days ago), so they do need to fix that and re-enable markets, but other then that PVP gameplay is much easier to “sustain” over a longer period of time.

And as I already mentioned - the economy becomes self-balanced and much more stable over longer periods of time.

Plus the game with full loot PVP (!) starts feeling more inclusive as you now remove silly synthetic BOE/BOP mechanics, making it where I can actually socialize with my fellow guildmates and give/pass down gear to them (or to other players too), instead of being forced to salvage it.

it works, when a big studio with proper funding actually does it. 90% of full loot games failed, as they were mde by 3 guys in their basement, underfunded. (do we have stats on how many PVE games failed too, that were made in a similar “underfunded” fashion? I bet the stats are the same. So there is no point of taking things out of context and attributing causality where it should not be attributed wrongfully)

The 2 companies (who were still small and indie at their inception) who pulled it off - were CCP Games (Eve Online) and Sandbox Interactive (Albion Online). Turbine made Asheron’s Call that went on from 1998 to 2015, who were a small studio as well and the PVP server (full loot) there survived the longest.

The biggest lie (or misunderstanding) that the “full loot PVP games die!!!1” crowd does not take into account, is that most big studios do not make full loot games, and that is reason they don’t last long. Not the other way around. And big studios are either too scared or are to “bland” and do not like to leave their comfort zone and tend to please their shareholders with “proven” money earning products (untill something like Tesla or Bitcoin rolls around in a form of full-lot PVP made the right way by a big studio, and then everyone would jump ship).

Its an issues of big corps not wanting to innovate, not the other way around. And the 80% of sheeple just follow along and parrot the same thing over and over that “PVP-full loot games don’t work”, where they could not have been any more wrong. They are just afraid of taking that leap of faith. It takes balls - ask Tesla.

You have no way of proving this, and evidence of many failed games prove this highly inaccurate.

Eve does not have, nor has ever had 100,000 players concurrent online at any point in its history, I know, i have played since 2003. Albion hit that 130-140k players online at a time just recently, and thats a drop in the bucket against other games like wow that hold millions concurrent players at a time on any given day, not just a random high score (like albion).

Back peddling on that are we? I’d think a streamer with your pvp skill would have a little more ingelligence then to double down on a really bad position. We (unofficially us @ blizzard) do not “want it” because its bad for games… Period. Its not rocket science. We knew this when we were working on diablo 2. They are horrible systems.

This is another issue, not involved with this topic. There is no potential here, because those that support it are less than half a percent of all players on the web. There is just no growth potential for these systems, and so we trash them as “bad ideas, prove time and time again”.

In some alternative universe sure.
On this planet however EVE has ~500k paying accounts and 19k average concurrency (which equates AT BEST to about ~12k actualy players taking into account multiboxing etc)
So even if every single one of EVE players joins NW, you will gain ~12k players daily
https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Rust is not a persistent world so its userbase may not want to go to game without a reset
Albion is cross-platform including mobile so of ~200k daily how many users on PC has it got? 50k daily at best?